The trial enrolled 605 middle-aged French men and women who had previously suffered a heart attack. This is called a "secondary prevention" trial because it's designed to prevent a second heart attack. The advantage of secondary prevention trials is that they can be smaller, because men who have already had a heart attack are at a much higher risk of having another. This increases your statistical power. The disadvantage is that the participants aren't necessarily representative of the population at large.
Participants were divided into a control group and an intervention group. The control group "received no dietary advice from the investigators but nonetheless were advised to follow a prudent diet by their attending physicians". Ah, the prudent diet rears its ugly head once again. In a later paper, they describe the prudent diet they used in a bit more detail:
[The control subjects] were expected to follow the dietary advice given by their attending physicians, similar to that of step I of the prudent diet of the American Heart Association.And what exactly is this prudent diet? It was created by the National Cholesterol Education Panel, that very conflicted organization I've written about before. Step I is now defunct, having given way to the next generation of NCEP guidelines in 2000. Here's a summary of the old Step I from the American Heart Association's website:
The Step I diet restricted total fat to no more than 30 percent of total calories, saturated fat to no more than 10 percent of total calories, and cholesterol to less than 300 mg/day. It was intended as the starting point for patients who had high cholesterol levels.This is an important point: the Lyon Diet-Heart trial wasn't an ordinary trial comparing the average person's diet to a different diet. It was a bare-knuckle showdown between the prudent diet and a modified version of the Mediterranean diet! I believe that's part of the reason it was rejected by the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine, although there's another reason I'll get to later. The intervention group received different advice:
Patients in the experimental group were advised by the research cardiologist and dietician, during a one-hour-long session, to adopt a Mediterranean-type diet: more bread, more root vegetables and green vegetables, more fish, less meat (beef, lamb, and pork to be replaced with poultry), no day without fruit, and butter and cream to be replaced with margarine supplied by the study.After five long years of these brutal diets, participants in the intervention ("Mediterranean") group were eating slightly less total fat, 29% less saturated fat, 32% less cholesterol, a bit more bread, legumes, fruit, vegetables and fish, compared to the control (prudent diet) group. They were also eating less meat and much less butter and cream, although cheese consumption was the same between groups. French people know better than to give up their cheese!
Because the patients would not accept olive oil- traditional to the Mediterranean diet- as the only fat [because French people use more butter than olive oil- SG], a rapeseed (canola) oil-based margarine (Astra-Calve, Paris, France) was supplied free for the whole family to experimental subjects. This margarine had a composition comparable to olive oil [mon oeil- SG] with 15% saturated fatty acids, 48% oleic acid but 5.4% 18:1 trans. However, it was slightly higher in linoleic [omega-6- SG] (16.4 vs 8.6%) and more so in alpha-linolenic acid [omega-3- SG] (4.8 vs 0.6%), a fatty acid markedly higher (3 fold) in the plasma of the Cretan cohort in the Seven Country study compared to that of Zutphen (Netherlands).
The oils recommended for salads and food preparation were rapeseed and olive oils exclusively. Moderate alcohol consumption in the form of wine was allowed at meals. At each subsequent visit of the experimental patients, a dietary survey and further counseling were done by the research dietician.
So far, these changes are not unique. They're similar to the interventions in the ineffective MRFIT and WHI trials in the last post. Here's where it gets interesting. The intervention group ate three times as much omega-3 alpha-linolenic acid as the control group, and 32% less omega-6 linoleic acid. The ratio was 20 : 1 linoleic acid : alpha-linoleic acid in the control group, and 4.4 : 1 in the intervention group. This was due to the combination of a low-fat diet and the canola oil goop they were provided free of charge.
But it gets even better. The intervention group reduced their omega-6 linoleic acid intake to 3.6% of calories, below the critical threshold of 4%. As I described in my recent post on eicosanoid signaling, reducing linoleic acid to below 4% of calories inhibits inflammation, while increasing it more after it has already exceeded 4% has very little effect if omega-3 is kept low*. This is a very important point: the intervention group didn't just increase omega-3. They decreased omega-6 to below 4% of calories. That's what sets the Lyon Diet-Heart trial apart from all the other failed diet trials.
After five years on their respective diets, 3.4% of the control (prudent diet) group and 1.3% of the intervention ("Mediterranean") group had died, a 70% reduction in deaths. Cardiovascular deaths were reduced by 76%. Stroke, angina, pulmonary embolism and heart failure were also much lower in the intervention group. A stunning victory for this Mediterranean-inspired diet, and a crushing defeat for the prudent diet!
There's a little gem buried in this study that I believe is the other reason it didn't get accepted to the New England Journal of Medicine: there was no difference in total cholesterol or LDL values between the control and experimental groups. The American scientific consensus was so cholesterol-centric that it couldn't accept the possibility that an intervention had reduced heart attack mortality without reducing LDL. The paper was accepted to the British journal The Lancet, another well-respected medical journal.
In the next post, I'll describe how we can benefit from the findings of the Lyon trial, and even surpass it, without having to resort to canola oil margarine.
*I admit 4% is somewhat arbitrary, but I think it's a good reference point based on the shape of the HUFA curve in this post.
58 comments:
Wow, Stephen. What a post! And it's amazing to hear that the NEJM could not accept the paper, likely because of their dogmatic stance toward cholesterol-->LDL-->Heart attacks/mortality. Never let a little good data get in the way of an accepted-as-fact theory.
Gee Stephan,
I wonder if any of your constant readers would ever sign themselves up for a trial after reading about trials like the Lyon Diet-Heart Trial, MR FIT, MONICA, etc. I know I couldn't.
On another off-topic note, have you or any readers read the 2008 edition of the book by Stephen T. Sinatra, et al, Reverse Heart Disease Now?
If so, any thoughts or disagreements with the authors, etc? As my mom gets ready for bypass surgery in the near future, I'm trying to find a good easy to understand "tutorial" for the rest of the family in terms of the most up-to-date and accurate "integrated" nutrition support with conventional treatment, etc. It's difficult now as I'm on the opposite coast from my parents and sisters and other than the sister who's a cath lab nurse and understands the diagnosis, procedures, and post -op care (but not the nutrition or causes) - they are all clueless except what the doc and my head-in-the-sand-mom tells them. I'm not trying to dissuade from the bypass, it's probably too late for that - just to do make sure they can try everything possible to optimize the outcome.
So far I've found a few relatively minor quibbles with Sinatra's book, but in the big picture, I think much of it will inform them well enough, quibbles or not. Unless there is something I'm missing about Sinatra's approach or a better book to suggest to them that won't be too complex.
Hi, Worthful content. Thanks a lot. Please keep the below tips for good health..
- move more (get up and clean, organize, walk, exercise)
- drink lots of water (alteast 2 lts a day)
- sleep (well) at the same time every night
- eat more vegetables and fruit
- don't eat dessert after EVERY meal and make sure it's small
Check http://www.completehealthtips.com for more health related tips and advise.
Hi, Stephan,
and thanks for the Lyon review
Yet I have a question concerning it. Not having read the Lancet 1994 fulltext, but only the Lyon final results in Circulation, 1999:
http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/99/6/779
I find it hard to fit any HUFAs from fish to the fat fractions listed in Table 3 there. After ALA+LA there is only 0.16E% for marine omegas in the intervention group??
So, first: does the Lancet1994 diet description match with the Table3 in Circulation1999?
And second: was the elaidic acid (18:1t) that you mention, only for the intervention margarine and not for the intervention diet? The Circulation article has absolutely no mention on trans fats, for either group. Which is not uncommon, unfortunately. But it's a big drawback & pity!
With regards & thanks for the blog!
LeenaS
Another explanation (a better one I think) for excluding from NEJM is the point made by Willett in Nutriniotal Epidemiology: There simply were far too many variables.
" ..it is not possible to attribute the findings to a single dietary component." (p. 435 2nd edit.)
All is mere guess.
I think the HUFA component is pretty obvious in this study and it certainly illustrates your point very clearly.
Humans are not designed for vegetable oil consumption.
Health Expert,
where's the evidence that increasing fruit and vegetables results in good health? (evil smirk).
I do prefer to get vitamins from these sources, of course, but other than that, is there any proof? evidence?
Stephan:
You may want to clean up the language to clarify which group ate which diet. It wasn't clear to me until I read the Lancet article. Maybe add a sentence to point out that the experimental group was eating a Mediterranean diet.
It's not clear to me where the control group was getting their linoleic acid from. In spite of the fact that the experimental group was given the trans-saturated margarine, there wasn't a significant difference between the two groups in trans intake...
I am starting to doubt that trans-fats by themselves are harmful.
I do wonder if the drop in casein intake could have an impact here. Dietarily, the biggest shifts are away from red meat and away from butter and cream.
Mirka:
After reading the article, I think Stephan is closer to the mark. The only difference between the control and experimental groups is diet. I would like to know more about the control group's diet, but this is a decent study.
Point is, which of the several differences in the diets. Possibilities are countless.
Mirka said...
"Point is, which of the several differences in the diets. Possibilities are countless."
Well it wasn't a difference in cholesterol, and the HUFA intake was apparently different.
Perhaps it had to do with their astrological sign, or they were the kind of people who didn't shave twice a day (joke).
Stephan,
I've been following your post for a while now and I find it very enlightening. I have a question that I believe is somewhat on point with your topic. I normally eat a very low carb diet that consists of green vegetables, pastured eggs and beef, liver, and wild fish (clarified butter is my fat). However, from time to time, once I've finished a meal, I will immediately get a sensation that I need to eat something sweet. Sometimes I ignore the sensation, but it is bothersome, as if my meal is not finished. I wonder what is occurring that brings this sensation on? I've tested my blood sugar several times after meals and the readings are non-diabetic, but is it possible that my insulin level is high whenever I feel this sensation?
Thanks so much for your reply!
ceuta said... "from time to time, once I've finished a meal, I will immediately get a sensation that I need to eat something sweet."
there is a book that touches on this called "Lights Out, Sleep, Sugar, and Survival" http://www.amazon.com/Lights-Out-Sleep-Sugar-Survival/dp/0671038680
They hypothesis there is that artificial lighting, allowing us to wake up before the sunrise and go to bed after sunset tricks our body into thinking we are in the end of summer days, when the days are longest and carbohydrates are plentiful.
Possibly as a survival mechanism of sorts, we crave sweets during these "long days" because they will help us store fat in order to survive the long winter. This is part of why, they say, it's important to sleep in total darkness, and not to have too many lights on when you're trying to go to bed.
Just a thought.
Ceuta, you've detailed my biggest problem. Its' been a month since I had chocolate. So now I am gorging on raisins whenever I feel the "need" to eat sweet stuff. I am sure both are equally bad, but one vice at a time.
Mtflight,
I thought your response was so out of left field that I was truly going to dismiss it. But then considering how late I go to bed and that I'm always falling asleep on the subway, getting drowsy at the office and behind the wheel, I really need to take heed to what your suggesting. I've resolved to be in bed by 10, but really giving up sweets has been easier than keeping this bed time. My library carries the book you mentioned and I'll get it tomorrow. Thanks so much for your suggestion!
Ceuta
ceuta,
I indulge my sweet tooth with a bit of dark chocolate now and then. Raisins raise my BG too high as a snack or dessert, but a high cocoa solid % chocolate (70% and above), in moderation, does the trick.
I'm so used to low sugar content, increasingly, I find even 70% varieties a bit too sweet and instead choose 85 & 90% varieties. Savored slowly, it's hard for me to overeat that kind of chocolate, esp with a bit of red wine. My BG is fine with the very small amount of sugar in that very dark chocolate. I never touch milk chocolate.
I also make easy dark chocolate truffles for special occasions and those are very high in fat, and very rich in chocolate flavor, but only have a tiny amount of sugar. They are great to savor slowly, too. The recipe and variations are on my blog.
I also second the motion to ease up on the late nights and improve your sleep habits, not that I am a good role model though... I'm trying to have the hour of the evening free of TV and computer screens, but it's a challenge, esp when I see all these interesting posts and comments here!
"...saturated fat wasn't having any effect on CHD in intervention trials, they started trying to change multiple things at once"
Does not make any sense to me.
Point is, with adequate intake of omega threes, LA is cardio protective, not harmful! There is a very clear result from that, especially in Israel.
What I do agree is, that evidence for adverse effects of saturated fats is mainly nonexistent. They look harmless. But in trials, for technical reasons, the relative portions of the three macros are usually kept the same. That's why exchange with useful pufas produce the so called 'negative' results.
P,
Get extra dark chocolate.
Homemade and specialty brands (online) are the best, but I find pretty good bars conveniently. Supermarkets and convenience stores, like CVS, Walgreen and RiteAid, easily have 85%+ bars. I've found Lindt's, Ghirardelli and Valrhona in my area.
I bought a Trader Joe's brand bar at 73% cocoa with almonds, it's too sweet. But it's a good starter. Downgrading to that one time really taught me how addicting sugar is.
Mirka said...
"Point is, with adequate intake of omega threes, LA is cardio protective, not harmful! There is a very clear result from that, especially in Israel."
Do you happen to have a reference to this? It may be the vitamin E that comes with some vegetable oils (LA sources) that appears to have a cardio-protective effect.
mtflight: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/77/4/796
...and the big meta made by Jakobsen & al, which I linked in the previous thread. Try to get the full texts if possible, however!
But the best way is to go PubMed/MedLine and do the searches by yourself. Only then you can be sure there is no cherry picking.
Mirka,
That paper doesn't support your assertion that LA is cardioprotective. The reason there have been so many studies on CHD in Israel is that they have a very high rate of MI, and a high intake of LA.
This gets back to the point I made in the last few posts: if you keep omega-3 low, increasing omega-6 from 5% to 10% makes very little difference in tissue HUFA and thus risk of MI. So it makes sense that there's no difference in tissue LA between cases and controls, because they're all above the 4% LA threshold.
What the paper found is consistent with the theory: arachidonic acid in tissue was the only thing associated with MI. AA increases up to 4% LA but then levels off. If they could reduce their LA intake to 2%, they would have much less AA and probably less MI, which is what you see in other low-LA populations throughout the world.
I'd be happy to see some epidemiological evidence for that kind of threshold. Jakobsen's (check full text!) covers a wide range!
(Your aboriginals tend to be very lean, that alone would explain a lot.)
Mirka,
That meta-analysis didn't even differentiate between omega-6 and omega-3 PUFA! It lumps them both into the same category.
Besides, it's based on observational studies. Fat intake is likely to be confounded by a "healthy user bias" in these types of studies. There's no evidence from controlled trials that increasing omega-6 reduces the incidence of MI. In fact, in some of the earlier trials, when background omega-6 intake was lower, adding LA-rich vegetable oils caused a large increase in MI. That happened in the Rose et al. trial and the Anti-Coronary Club trial in the 1960s in the UK and US.
Full text tells, that six was dominating. 2 E% LA for me seems unrealistic, if we think typical paleo diet: wild game (less saturated, more pufa than farmed meat), fish, nuts, seeds, crustaceans. Lots of long chain 3 probably yes, but LA that low... then must think the pufa sources: A nut may differ from oil and that from margarine.
But for me it's time to go to bed now (10 pm here).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7934543
"Dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids and composition of human aortic plaques."
Felton CV, Crook D, Davies MJ, Oliver MF.
Wynn Institute for Metabolic Research, London, UK.
"We compared the fatty-acid composition of aortic plaques with that of post-mortem serum and adipose tissue, in which essential fatty-acid content reflects dietary intake.
"Positive associations were found between serum and plaque omega 6 (r = 0.75) and omega 3 (r = 0.93) polyunsaturated fatty acids, and monounsaturates (r = 0.70), and also between adipose tissue and plaque omega 6 polyunsaturated fatty acids (r = 0.89).
"No associations were found with saturated fatty acids.
"These findings imply a direct influence of dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids on aortic plaque formation and suggest that current trends favouring increased intake of polyunsaturated fatty acids should be reconsidered."
this is like the "smoking gun" favoring Stephan's HUFA post.
From "Dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids and composition of human aortic plaques."
Felton CV, Crook D, Davies MJ, Oliver MF.
"Dietary fatty acids differ in their influence on the incidence of coronary heart disease.[ 1] Epidemiological studies show that increased consumption of polyunsaturated fatty acids is associated with a reduced incidence of coronary heart disease.[ 1, 2] Paradoxically, after ingestion of fish-oil, polyunsaturated fish-oils accumulate in human coronary arteries.[ 3] How dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids influence atherogenesis is unknown, but the susceptibility of low-density lipoprotein (LDL) to oxidative modification suggests that esterified forms may promote LDL infiltration into the vessel wall. Oxidised LDL is readily taken up by macrophages, resulting in lipid accumulation and lesion formation.[ 4] Serum and adipose tissue fatty-acid concentrations are largely determined by dietary intake, especially for the essential fatty acids, linoleic (18:2omega6) and alpha-linolenic (18:3omega3) acid, which cannot be synthesised by man. The long half-life of adipose tissue 18:2omega6 (over 1 year) makes levels of this fatty acid in adipose tissue the most reliable indicator of long-term dietary habits.[ 5] Our aim was to compare the fatty-acid composition of postmortem human serum, adipose tissue, and sortie plaques to assess the extent to which plaque fatty-acid content is affected by long-term dietary intake."
References
1 Wood DA, Oliver MF. Linoleic acid, antioxidants, vitamins and coronary heart disease. In: Marmot M, Elliott P, eds. Coronary heart disease epidemiology. Oxford: Oxford Medical Publications, 1992: 179-202.
2 Kromhout D, Bosschieter EB, de Lezenne Coulander C. The inverse relation between fish-oil consumption and 20-year mortality from coronary artery disease. N Engl J Med 1985; 312: 1205-09.
3 Rapp JH, Connor WE, L in DS, Porter JM. Dietary eicosapentaenoic acid and docosahexaenoic acid from fish-oil: their incorporation into human atherosclerotic plaques. Arterioscler Thromb 1991; 11: 903-11.
4 Steinberg D, Parthasarathy S, Carew TE, Khoo JC, Witztum JL. Beyond cholesterol: modifications of low-density lipoprotein that increase its atherogenicity. N Engl J Med 1989; 320: 915-24.
5 Heffernan AG. The fatty acid composition of human adipose tissue. Clin Sci 1963; 25: 423-29.
This is a link to the trial Mirka cited.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/77/4/796
The subcutaneous Omega 6 content "The 10th to 90th percentile range for linoleic acid was 21–31%"
Mirka
The Kitavans have an Omega 6 LA intake of well below 1%.
In the wild source of Omega 6 are limited. Seeds and nuts etc are seasonal and competed for.
Author Omega Six the Devils Fat
www.Omegasixthedevilsfat.com
This post showed up in my feeder today. It's refreshing to get this commentary from someone with your background. I will follow you more closely from now on
jenn
http://www.aheadofthecurveatmidlife.com
Thanks Robert, that's just what I suspected.
I didn't understand which group ate what foods. Could you clarify?
I think Robert Andrew Brown has mentioned this a couple of times in comments to different posts, but no one seems concerned. Oxidized fats of any origin may be problematic. So switching to tallow, butter or coconut oil may not be a health move in the right direction if you pan fry, deep fry or roast with them. Even the fat within meat could be "damaged" if it reaches a certain temperature (well done). To make ghee you have to thermally oxidize butter. It's promoted on this blog as healthy. Is it? Is frying hash browns in butter ok? Is low carb, high fat only healthy if you boil your meat or eat it very rare (boo hoo, no more burnt ends)? So basically I'm asking if anyone has an opinion on safe cooking methods and temperatures (or if it shouldn't even be a concern as long you're not using vegetable oils).
Thanks
L said:
To make ghee you have to thermally oxidize butter.
No you don't. I make my clarified butter at 105 ^C, using a digital meat thermometer to monitor the temperature while I boil off the water content. That's well below the smoke point of even most polyunsaturates.
The milk solids separate naturally. You do have to watch it since once the water is gone the temperature will rise rapidly (no more evaporative heat loss), or, you know, use the temperature alarm.
It's a good idea to monitor cooking temps. Too many people use high heat too often, I've noticed. I hate to say it, but I think men are especially likely to keep the heat high ;-).
Between cooking more grass-fed meats and the less tender cuts (like pork shoulder, pot roast, shanks, and ribs) that need low, slow cooking, I'm finding I have lowered the temps on just about all foods anyway. My fried eggs cooked in lots of butter (2 tbl?) are cooked very gently, so there are no crispy edges - nicely set whites with still runny yolks are my goal - no need to turn them if I use a lid to gently steam, too. I preheat a well-seasoned carbon steel saute pan on medium heat, crack in the eggs, season with kelp granules and sea salt, and lower temp to #2-3 Low (electric range) and put on the lid. Depending on the size and freshness (fresh egg whites are thicker) of the eggs, it takes about 2 minutes of cooking. My 10 year old son is becoming a very good egg cooker with this technique.
Robert,
I do use ghee. I don't monitor the temp, but once the water is boiled off I remove it from the heat. So the fat never got above boiling. Doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't oxidized to degree that would be detrimental. Do fats have to reach their smoke points for there to be changes in composition or significant oxidization? But lets say you have properly prepared ghee. Now I fry my steak or eggs (although no more eggs becaue these recent posts have scrared me into miniminzing PUFA from all sources), the ghee is now getting heated again at probably a higher temp (depending on the cook). The fat within the steak is subject to this heat treatment. So if you cook it to well done--- Bad? Or are you only sure about the safety of properly prepared ghee?
Anna,
I guess your low and slow method (I would add wet) would be playing it safe.
Thanks
Sure you don't want to heat any fat to or past the smoke point. However, as far as fats go, saturated fat is probably most heat stable. PUFAs not so, apparently.
I would not stop consuming eggs, or pan sauteing in butter/coconut oil/bacon fat.
As Anna suggests, be patient, use medium low to medium heat and problem solved.
Stephan and Anna,
I'm a little late in acknowledging your responses. Thank so much. I truly appreciate them. I'm not a chocolate fan (I also saw your comment P), so I'll probably have some berries the next time I want something sweet. And I'm on track to keep another 10 p.m. bedtime. Thanks again!
Ceuta
Mtflight,
Or become a raw vegan. Problem solved. Kidding. I googled oxidized, thermally, rancid fat and based on a cursory read the change in compostion and oxidization is time, temperature and method dependent. Weird stuff is formed when fat is heated beyond what it normally would be in most cooking methods. However, it is indicated that degradation to some degree occurs when heated at temperatures attained via methods other than water boiling. Including grilling and roasting. Hey, a paleo method!!! Ahhh, we are safe because it's paleo. Not quite sure. May be they just seared the outside quickly (minimal damage). May be not (some people like a nice char on the outside (think crispy fat, bacon, whole roast pig). Even if they did eat it like that we can't rule out the possibility that it would have been healthier to remain raw meat eaters. They didn't use separated oils/fats to pan saute or pour over root vegetables to roast in oven at very high temp to carmelize the natural sugars (yum). May be if you are not genetically susceptible to heart disease it makes no difference. But if you are, may be there is some credence to Ornish, Dough Graham, etc. Minimal or no oxidized animal fat or cholesterol,(which are just as bad as vegetable oils), low fat in general. Anyway, thanks for the input.
Great series of articles, thanks. It would be very interesting to know what the actual fat composition of the margarine was, including trans. I think the brand name was mentioned in the study, but it was French so unfamiliar to me.
L mentioned Ornish. I've read a couple of his studies, and they mostly seem to consist of getting heart patients to exercise and change their diets, then assigning all the credit to their improvement to the reduction of animal product intake. Even to a non-scientist like me, he seems shady.
In any case, good stuff!
I haven't really looked into this in paleo terms, but slow cooking with very hot coals and/or heated rocks has a very, very long tradition. I wonder how far back it goes. Think if this technique as a primitive CrockPot, if you will, like a Hawaiian buried pig.
I'm continually amazed at human ingenuity when it comes to food. I was watching a Bizarre foods episode, set on location in Africa (perhaps centrally located, but I can't remember), where a native dish was fermented bananas. This banana variety isn't like the sweet or even plantain varieties familiar to us; it was very, very starchy and not edible without some processing; it needed fermentation to break down into an edible food. They lined pits in the earth with banana leaves (creating a "vessel"), added some other ingredients (probably to inoculate it), covered it back up and left it to ferment. It was a group effort. Later, they all feasted on it. This particular tribe had a number of fermented foods, which probably also reduces the need to prepare food with heat or to source fuel to make foods edible and nutritious.
We really do have it quite easy, don't we? BTW, I recommend Bizarre Foods; it's a great look at traditional cuisines around the world - generally people exploiting what is in their own backyard in their own unique way. And it really makes any of your own food experiments look pretty tame to your family in comparison ;-D.
Sorry to be a bit late on this one but the protective effects of linoleic acid seem somewhat hidden to me, I've been meaning to discuss this paper here for some time, Israel is interesting:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8960090
and related links threw up this speculative paper on the joys of cancer and linoleic acid:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17923822
Linoleic acid is fine for cardiologists. Let them enjoy!
Peter
D,
I've edited it to make it clearer.
L,
The more saturated a fat, the more resistant it will be to oxidation. Under the same cooking conditions, tallow and ghee are more stable than corn oil and soybean oil. As others have mentioned, making ghee doesn't involve reaching the oil's smoke point. In my opinion, it's not an issue for most applications. If you're deep frying or cooking in a wok at super high heat, that might change things.
I hope you're not giving up eggs based on what you've read on my blog! They aren't actually that high in omega-6, and they're exceptionally rich in micronutrients. I eat two pasture-raised eggs every morning.
USfoodtrends,
The composition of the margarine is in the post.
Peter,
Thanks for the links. There are a lot of "paradoxes" when you live in the world of the diet-heart hypothesis!
usfoodtrends,
Just to be clear. I'm not suggesting animal fat/cholesterol is bad. Only that oxidized forms may be. So if Ornish's patient were consuming significant amounts of these and they are in fact problematic, then his diet could have been in a step in the right direction. My recommendation: eat your beef/lamb steaks rare to medium; stew other meats completely covered and only until done. Don't like it that way, just go ahead and eat KFC extra crispy. It tastes far better than anything paleo anyway. Also something to keep in mind, although Stephan has made a strong case against omega six, not everyone will suffer ill effects. Just like lots of people can eat wheat and other evil grains and will live to get it up at 80. So I guess I'll add to my recommendation: do what makes you happy. Long live the Colonel!
"eat your beef/lamb steaks rare to medium; "
With pastured red meat, lightly cooked is the only way, though I do like a flavorful seared exterior. Even medium is overcooked and inedible, IMO.
We had bison tenderloin steak last night that was excellent - room-temp seasoned meat, seared just 3 minutes on each side over med-hi preheated grill, then about 15 minutes in indirect heat, 5 minutes to "rest" = a very nice medium-rare steak. I used the gas grill, but there is no fat in tenderloin to drip and flare up. I put a nice pat of grass-fed butter on top. Mmmm.
Anna,
Excellent cooking advice. I've written it down. Bison tenderlion!? I'm a municipal garbage man. Do banks give home equity loans for grocery shopping? I'll look into it. Long live Anna! Long live my six pack! Transiently four. Damn the Colonel!
L,
You have no idea how frugal I can be about some things (one of our cars is 14 yo and until 2 years ago, it was the "newer" car). LOL, but I don't tend to scrimp as much on food, it's true.
However, I buy the bison meat (cut, wrapped, and deep frozen) twice yearly, a half bison at a time (about 100-130 pounds final yield from a Montana ranch family that delivers to San Diego co-op bulk buy customers (when the ranchers come to visit family members). So it's not nearly as expensive as it might seem, about $7-8 pounds after cutting up). The ground burger meat costs the same as the tenderloin, but there's a lot of burger compared to tenderloin, obviously.
My freezer stock of bison packages is getting low and I'm out of all the burger and small "budget cuts". The tenderloin just happened to be the right size for 3 people (& my lunch today) and something I could defrost fast in an afternoon (roasts need some planning for defrosting and enough people to eat it all in a reasonable time frame).
The night before we had salmon patties with a 14 oz can of Alaskan wild caught salmon that was less than $3 at Trader Joe's with a can of sardines in to extend it because my son's friend stayed for dinner. Pretty cheap protein for 2 kids and 2 adults (and I can find good canned salmon at the 99¢ store, too - that's where I buy canned salmon for the local food pantry donations).
Tonight I'm behind in dinner plans so I'll make a frittatta (crustless quiche) with a half dozen eggs ($1.50).
I was getting a biweekly large box of organic CSA produce for $30, but now I'm a host for a new CSA pickup point and that provides me with a complimentary small weekly box.
See, it evens out, even when I spend more on some things. There's a LOT I don't buy anymore that used to be staples around here...to me, it's more about value than the price tag.
Nice post, Stephan!
I wanted to run a question by you (or any of you smart folks who frequent this blog) concerning a plasma fatty acid test that my girlfriend recently completed. It was part of her program with Recovery Systems, the Julia Ross Mood Cure clinic in California.
Apparently her test indicated high levels of docosatetraenoic acid, an omega-6 long-chain fatty acid. Her omega-3 levels were "healthy." I haven't seen the test results yet but my GF's nutritionist has, and she told my GF that, based on the results, my GF should eat less animal fats and fried foods and replace these fats with plants fats.
What?!?!? The nutritionist admitted to never having any experience with high docosatetraenoic acid levels in a client, so she did some quick research and came up with her recommendations. I, of course, strongly disagree.
In my research on the subject, I found that high docosatetraenoic acid levels can indicate high arachidonic acid levels. Somehow the AA creates the DA. High AA is seen in people eating "red meat, butter, and eggs." These are all foods that Julia Ross highly recommends! I also discovered that DA is naturally high in breast milk and is an important fat in the brain. So ... no fried foods? Por que?
Needless to say I'm both skeptical and confused about the recommendations being made to my GF. It seems that eating less animal fat would be counterproductive to health and that fried foods aren't harmful if eaten at home and kept from the smoking point.
Any thoughts?
Ryan Koch
"I also discovered that DA is naturally high in breast milk and is an important fat in the brain. "
Do you have a source for this, as I would be interested. This trial does not show high AD but breast milk composition alters with diet so ??.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/41/4/787
AD adrenic acid is found in significant amounts in the brain.
Ryan,
Have you read Stephan's recent posts? Don't use plant oils. May be with exception of coconut oil. Don't fry (deep or saute)with any fat. It's not just frying that may be a problem. Heated fat via any method may be a problem. Not important how it gets to a certain temp, just that it does. Stephan has an old post describing an industrial hydrogenation process (involves heat). No hydrogenation, no problem. No! Anna made a comment in an older post regarding the high heat involved in expeller pressing. There is a logical disconnect in the paleo/weston world. Everyone is up in arms against industrial processes. Cooking is a process. So what if it doesn't take place in a factory. It involves heat, oxygen, fat and other chemicals present (food, cookware---got Walmart nonstick cookware--may be lots of chemicals). No one can definitively state that heated fat has no deleterious effect on health. May be recommendations to switch to paleo/weston on the basis of health improvement should come with a caveat regarding cooking of animal products: minimize temp and time at temp.
One more thing: I think for the biggest portion of the Paleo time line man did not have the ability to render, store and cook with animal fat. Meat and organ consumed like giant self encapsulated pills. The interior was not exposed to flame or the high heat of coals/rocks. I think?They definitely did not deep or pan fry.
Robert,
Interesting study you posted -- thanks. I found in various studies that DA is a significant part of breast milk. And, yes, I also found that breast milk composition changed with diet. In omnivirous Italians, it appears that AA and DA actually reduces with breast milk maturation:
Fatty acid composition of human milk in Italy.
As for the fatty acid content of the brain:
Omega 3 fatty acids and the brain
"The main PUFA in the brain are docosahexaenoic acid (DHA, all cis 4,7,10,13,16,19-22:6) derived from the omega 3 fatty acid, alpha-linolenic acid, and arachidonic acid (AA, all cis 5,8,11,14-20:4) and docosatetraenoic acid (all cis 7,10,13,16-22:4), both derived from the omega 6 fatty acid, linoleic acid."
Also, you mentioned adrenic acid. Here's a quote from wikipedia regarding DA:
"...docosatetraenoic acid is an ω-6 fatty acid with the trivial name adrenic acid."
I guess they're the same thing...
So, back to my original question: how can my GF's nutritionist recommend avoiding fried foods and animal fats based on my GF's fatty acid profile (high in DA) -- what information is this based on?
Like I said, I strongly disagree with the recommendation, but would love to hear other opinions...
L,
I certainly agree with the notion that animal fats are the way to go. If you read my blog, you'll find that out very quickly. I have to admit that I'm skeptical about the idea that heated fats cause damage to one's health. Hydrogenation is a different beast than heating oil to sear a steak in a frying pan. I use ghee or coconut oil -- both stable sat fats -- for all of my frying. I make some damn good french fries now and again with coconut oil. What information suggests that eating these fries will hurt me? I'm unclear as to which posts of Stephan's you're referring to. Would you mind pointing me to them?
I'm open to the idea that fats heated to smoking point may be damaging, but as long as they're kept below that temperature, it wouldn't seem there would be a problem.
I agree with your stance on fats being eaten differently in paleo times -- I've seen more than one film where natives eat fat just as you described. However, I dispute the idea that ancient humans didn't render fat. Many cultures certainly did so to make pemmican or store fats year-round. Most of the methods involved long boiling times over a fire, which would have meant varying temperatures (which is apparent to anyone who ever cooked over a camp fire).
Whether or not paleo folks deep-fried -- who knows? Modern primitive cultures don't seem to do so. Does that mean that it's harmful, even if using the proper fats (stable sat fats)? I don't know, but it sure tastes good!
Stephan,
Blogger just added a search gadget that uses Google and allows the search to extend to links on your blog in addition to your blog page. I just put it on my blog and also removed the Blogger Navbar on my page with some simple html.
It would be really useful to have the Google search on your blog. Just a suggestion!
Ryan,
May be you were asleep in history class the day Native Americans and French fur traders were discussed. I was referring to the Paleolithic era. Much more specific than "ancient" (I don't consider 1600-1800 ish ancient). Think caveman with no pots, pans or storage vessesls. Things needed to render fat, store and get fat hot to sear a steak in.
If you think consuming fat heated beyond its smoke point "may be" bad, please ignore the following and continue making french fries:
People with a history of heart disease in the family or a significant heart scan score should know this: Oxidized animal fat (the composition of which is not all oxidation resistant saturated fat, and please note resistant does not mean immune)---there is mufa and some pufa) and cholesterol, to be clear let me reiterate, OXIDIZED animal fat and cholesterol is atherogenic. Oxidation can occur at temperatures below the smoke point.
Ryan Koch
Re adrenic acid in breast milk - this trial suggests levels are pretty low, which would make more sense to me.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/82/1/125/T3
Re fats and heating.
Trying to determine optimum survival strategies in terms of diet is complex. Heating would have had advantages in terms of preserving foods, and helping reduce bacteria and parasites.
At the same time cooking does develop compounds that have been show to be detrimental by a number of mechanisms, like oxidised fats, and AGEs. Trials suggest these both end up in the body and deplete the body of antioxidants.
As L states damage is time temperature and method dependent. So raw may be better as far as oxidation goes, but that has to be weighed against unfriendly bacteria etc, immune response etc which produces its own stresses.
There is not perfect answer, but there are some less good ones and they include heavily oxidised fats.
Author Omega Six The Devils Fat
www.omegasixthedevilsfat.com
L,
Asleep in history class? Maybe. Asleep in anthropology and archaeology? Nope. I said paleo, and I meant paleo. The oldest paleo pottery found so far is 14,000-21,000 years old:
Chinese cave coughs up oldest known pottery
But that's beside the point. Native Americans of recent history were quite the specimens. Are you telling me that heating up fats gave them heart disease and hurt their health otherwise? To me, it seems like you're talking about perfection in diet -- which apparently means that we all eat fats like our oldest human ancestors (as bursting "capsules") rather than heat them up. That's fine, my friend. It's your body, do what you want. While I agree that this is ideal, I'm not so sure that it's practical.
And all this talk about heating up fats leads to heart disease is new to me. Where are the sources? If I avoid fructose, veggie oils, trans fats, and eat a nutrient-rich diet, I can still get heart disease by eating a seared steak or frying some potatoes? Come on now. Let's be realistic.
Robert,
Thanks for the link. You're right that AD is a smaller component of breast milk than other fatty acids. As I said earlier, it gets lower over time with breast milk maturation. What I'm trying to say is that it seems like a natural fat to be in the human body -- particulary the brain. So why is it a bad thing if my girlfriend has a high level of this fat in her blood, in addition to a "healthy level of omega-3's?" What is the ideal fatty acid makeup when it comes to omega-6's?
I agree with your stance on diet, heating fats, survival, etc. It's a very practical thing that we heat fats. Not the most ideal, but the most practical, as I wrote above to L. Wouldn't oxidised fats be dealt with by a cholesterol-rich diet? Cholesterol is an antioxidant, no?
Ryan,
I wouldn't worry about it. Docosatetraenoic acid is one of the omega-6 eicosanoid precursors, but it's only one of them. The thing that's related to CHD risk according to Dr. Bill Lands is the total percentage omega-6 in HUFA. So in isolation, I'm not sure how much that info really tells us.
I suspect that what's going on is the nutritionist doesn't know what she's talking about and just has a hair trigger when it comes to advising people to avoid animal foods. If your girlfriend is worried about it, she could take a little more omega-3 to balance it out.
L,
Indians in the Pacific Northwestern US rendered fat extensively from whales, bears, fish, seals etc. They kept it in bags for months at room temp, and then cooked with it. Although they probably didn't fry with it. I don't have any hard data on their health, but by all accounts they appeared robust and healthy.
I think it would be very difficult to prove that humans weren't rendering fat earlier in our history.
Ryan
Re the Adrenic acid AD issue.
What is your friends plant based Omega 3 intake like.
Many eat fish oil and forget about the plant based Omega 3. Fish oil is low in plant based Omega 3.
Both the plant based and long chain Omega 3 are essential.
An Omega 3:6 imbalance in the plant based fats could lead to conversion imbalances. Might an imbalance express as high AD. It is possible.
It is all very complex and much is not known.
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