tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post1712849182870643816..comments2024-02-25T02:24:14.972-08:00Comments on Whole Health Source: Food Reward: Approaching a Scientific ConsensusStephan Guyenethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comBlogger144125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-69757157081215152472013-09-11T03:04:59.059-07:002013-09-11T03:04:59.059-07:00Absolutely fascinating blog post - thanks for putt...Absolutely fascinating blog post - thanks for putting it together. Very informative.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00268623389667608697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-14902148093368048442012-10-10T01:47:35.873-07:002012-10-10T01:47:35.873-07:00This is great, thank you! And it leads me to ponde...This is great, thank you! And it leads me to ponder: <br />How fitting that the only instance where Twinkie-level palatability would have ever occurred throughout evolution would be, appropriately, in times of starvation/metabolic slowdown/emergency storage mode, in which that old dry leg of meat was suddenly elevated to Twinkie-level reward status. It never occurred to me that yumminess and starvation mode had such a long steamy love affair.<br />Anyhow, thanks again for the enlightening overview! The Neural Monasteryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01498108837111139399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-20367885839888396232012-06-07T17:21:16.669-07:002012-06-07T17:21:16.669-07:00I appear to have angered Sanjeev. I hope he can ge...I appear to have angered Sanjeev. I hope he can get over it.<br /><br />My point was that suggesting science is even approaching a consensus on food reward just sounds too self-affirming and might encourage self-affirming research, which has led us down the wrong path before.David Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04849389847524919500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-5092950959745418572012-05-01T14:11:02.907-07:002012-05-01T14:11:02.907-07:00> scientific consensus that the earth was the ...> scientific consensus that the earth was the center of the universe<br />___<br />confusing science with religion<br /><br />confusing people with incentive to disagree and establish a career by proving everyone else is wrong with people incentivized to always agree<br /><br />> that does not a consensus make<br /><br />heh ... maybe that's why Stephan's post was about "approaching a consensus", not about "a consensus as been made" <br /><br />your comment indicates incoherence on science, process, religion and confusion on when, historically, people started being skeptical and scientific, and a failure of basic reading comprehension. I hope you are not this way in real life.Sanjeevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09522727136330797375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-67674761034219400902012-04-15T07:10:11.620-07:002012-04-15T07:10:11.620-07:00There was once a scientific consensus that the ear...There was once a scientific consensus that the earth was the center of the universe. This post sounds a lot like you're thoroughly convinced of your own theory, which I think is rather dangerous. <br /><br />While a lot of people might think reward is involved, that does not a consensus make.David Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04849389847524919500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-40771317498168879032012-04-06T12:36:49.800-07:002012-04-06T12:36:49.800-07:00Probably, it is to late to comment, but the weight...Probably, it is to late to comment, but the weight and size of new-born babies is on the rise. They manage to start their weight-gain while inside the womb.Galina L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09156132815504279615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-19127482734496709232012-04-03T11:26:37.532-07:002012-04-03T11:26:37.532-07:00Nigel,
Sorry if I was unclear.
Although formula mi...Nigel,<br />Sorry if I was unclear.<br />Although formula might be used more now than when it was introduced, (I have no idea what the figures are on this,) this would still suggest that infant obesity should have always been around, and the only difference over time is the number. <br /> <br />But that's not what we are seeing here. Infant obesity is a distinctly recent phenomenon, which is why I am skeptical that it is simply infant formula that is the issue (although it is clearly an issue)<br /><br />And its totally possible my logic is off from over-consumption of icedcoffee, speaking of which . . .Scott Russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17221933596021597469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-73473686438623489472012-04-03T10:42:39.814-07:002012-04-03T10:42:39.814-07:00IcedCoffee, perhaps your memory is poor due to the...IcedCoffee, perhaps your memory is poor due to the excessive consumption of iced coffee. <br /><br />Somewhere up there ^^^^, I wrote:-<br />"The advertising of utter crap has increased drastically over the years, resulting in an increase in the percentage of parents feeding their infants on the stuff. Hence, the recent trend of obesity in infants."<br /><br />Do you have any evidence to refute what I wrote?Nigel Kinbrumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03368973941328529619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-26054618584236027102012-04-02T04:23:55.309-07:002012-04-02T04:23:55.309-07:00Well we've covered about half of the battle. ...Well we've covered about half of the battle. But how does food reward explain why this has only started occurring recently. Bottle feeding has been around for a long time, and even the modern incarnation of formula has remained relatively the same since the 1970s. Shouldn't we have been seeing obese infants (albeit perhaps in smaller numbers, I don't know the exact stats on bottle-feeding vs. breastfeeding over time)since the introduction of the hyper-rewarding formula?Scott Russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17221933596021597469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-48795322069754703262012-03-31T18:40:37.590-07:002012-03-31T18:40:37.590-07:00@ Sanjeev,
I think it is more complicated.
I am ...@ Sanjeev,<br />I think it is more complicated. <br /> I am not a defender of a bottle-feeding, but I don't personally think it ultimately determines the weight of a grown-up person. I don't remember any overweight child in my class, while some were not breast-feed as infants for sure - breast-milk substitutes were available in Soviet Union and people used it because some mothers couldn't breast-feed or for some other reasons. Sorry, but I have to repeat it again, in the society with the luck of manufactured and fast food people gained weight later in life, smaller amounts, but not young individuals and children. Another personal opinion - in order for a very young child to gain an inappropriate amount of weight, he/she should be fed frequently,and given a lot of sugar, especially in a liquid form. People in McDonald give children a toy with meals for a reason - just a food even manufactured to be addictive is not an attraction enough. <br />I think it is very important to get used to some normal food during one's childhood. When my son went to a university in different town and was required to eat in a cafeteria for his first year, he couldn't take it any longer after a year and started to cook his own food afterwards. He is not particularly skillful in cooking, somewhat lazy, so his dishes are quite simple, but for him it is more attractive food than over-flavored manufactured one. The attractiveness of cafeteria food is overrated. It is a very convenient way to eat for thous who got used to it and can stand it. I immigrated initially to Canada (Vancouver,BC), then to USA. I know a lot of immigrants, most of them avoid commercial foods and cook their own because it is what they prefer. Traditional food doesn't keep them thin and healthy. It is just a better way to eat than SAD.Galina L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09156132815504279615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-5831538293275151112012-03-31T08:57:15.865-07:002012-03-31T08:57:15.865-07:00Excellent. Although FrankG has a good point too.Excellent. Although FrankG has a good point too.Laurahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08714172233493373383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-91466444807759525292012-03-31T01:31:44.830-07:002012-03-31T01:31:44.830-07:00Thanks for the input Galina.
That's what I h...Thanks for the input Galina. <br /><br />That's what I have seen before with women friends and relatives who breast fed. <br /><br />And for those that bottle fed it's been pretty consistent that the baby decides when they've had enough and they can communicate in several ways they want more. <br /><br />Any caregiver that can see the (IMHO usually clear) signs will respond to the cues the baby gives saying the baby is still hungry. And if the baby's reward system gets triggered in a similar way to kids and teens and adults respond to a cafeteria diet, voila ... the baby's hunger lasts longer and happens more frequently.Sanjeevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09522727136330797375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-22229173847672679592012-03-30T16:36:30.191-07:002012-03-30T16:36:30.191-07:00@Sandev,
as a mother who breastfed my child (who i...@Sandev,<br />as a mother who breastfed my child (who is 19 now), I can tell that amount of food child consume is self-regulated. When breast is very full at the beginning of feeding, milk gets released very easily and freely but less easily than from a bottle. Eating is a hard job for a little child, when it gets tired and full, it fells asleep, if it is not getting enough food, it awakes sooner in order to eat, the more milk is sucked, the more gets produced. If the child leaves some milk in the breast, less milk gets produced in a future. No sane mother tries to limit the amount of milk for her baby. Also, a hungry child has a defense mechanism - it can easily drive family, especially mother, insane by crying, it is more than just some crying. <br />Before I had my son at 32 yo, I went on diet several times, it didn't cause any tendency to a fatness in my offspring so far. I am from a society where people eat self-cooked food. Such system doesn't prevent diseases of civilization and obesity in society, but keeps children and most young adults in normal weight.Galina L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09156132815504279615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-61679791572441632482012-03-30T16:35:57.471-07:002012-03-30T16:35:57.471-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Galina L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09156132815504279615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-85674811932338432202012-03-29T22:24:01.119-07:002012-03-29T22:24:01.119-07:00IcedCoffee said...
"So infant obesity is stri...IcedCoffee said...<br />"So infant obesity is strictly because of parental overfeeding? I find this almost impossible to believe. <b>People are smart enough to give the baby less food if its becoming obese.</b>"<br />You overestimate people.Nigel Kinbrumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03368973941328529619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-65009891562823763572012-03-29T12:48:44.221-07:002012-03-29T12:48:44.221-07:00Thomas, I've been most influenced by 180 Degre...Thomas, I've been most influenced by 180 Degree Health, would recommend you to explore that site.Colldénhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10664747492507357479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-57772386554120010632012-03-29T10:00:24.345-07:002012-03-29T10:00:24.345-07:00Hi RobR,
The level 5 "simple" diet is n...Hi RobR,<br /><br />The level 5 "simple" diet is not something I envision going on indefinitely, but rather a tool to produce fat loss in the short to medium term. The idea is eventually to return to a higher level, whatever is sustainable for you and meets your goals. The point is that the diet should not be extremely restricted in food variety forever.<br /><br />I think the foods you selected should provide enough micronutrients to meet your nutritional needs as long as it isn't continued indefinitely. The only concern I have is that it may be too low in fat for some people (especially if the chicken breast is skinless). Two options to increase variety would be 1) change which three foods you eat each week, and 2) have a couple of planned 'cheat' meals per week where you eat food that's more diverse.<br /><br />I'm not a physician, I can't give medical advice, and I don't know the medical details of your situation, so these are just ideas for a rational adult to consider and discuss with a physician before taking action.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-7336236658696007702012-03-29T06:12:33.637-07:002012-03-29T06:12:33.637-07:00So infant obesity is strictly because of parental ...So infant obesity is strictly because of parental overfeeding? I find this almost impossible to believe. People are smart enough to give the baby less food if its becoming obese. Not to mention that I've known several parents of newborns, and the bottle is a way to shut the baby up when its crying, no matter what the reason. Attempting to overfeed the baby is nothing new.Scott Russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17221933596021597469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-18493619705797522702012-03-29T05:35:19.912-07:002012-03-29T05:35:19.912-07:00If I may poke a quandry I'm having in here.
O...If I may poke a quandry I'm having in here.<br /><br />On a 700-800 daily Calorie, Level 5 reward diet consisting of potatoes, chicken breast and spinach. What should be done for vitamin/mineral deficiencies on a low-reward low-calorie diet? Is multivitamin supplementation necessary?<br /><br />Does low-calorie typically run the risk of getting sufficient nutrients over a long enough period of time?RobRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11889680415917621479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-46244643443469690212012-03-28T21:21:11.068-07:002012-03-28T21:21:11.068-07:00Wasn't proposing Dutch Winter Hunger mechanism...Wasn't proposing Dutch Winter Hunger mechanisms as the solution.<br /><br />It's one avenue of research I stumbled on after some online discussions regarding Lustig's "fructose is a poison" talk. I found the infant obesity idea interesting and have done some reading when I had the time. This is one avenue I keep tabs on intermittently out of curiosity.Sanjeevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09522727136330797375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-21761316381274325682012-03-28T21:05:44.938-07:002012-03-28T21:05:44.938-07:00Stephen said...
@ Sanjeev,
Thank you for v...Stephen said...<br /> @ Sanjeev,<br /> Thank you for validating my point about name calling. Try not to be so angry.<br />__<br />Anger is for a few seconds to a minute.<br /><br />Gullibility ... not so much.<br /><br />Apologies for taking you off your preferred topic, pushing that book - here, let me help get you back on track with your personal mania <br /><br />"The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living" by Jeff s. Volek, PhD, RD and Stephen D. Phinney, MD, PhD.<br /><br />Either read the book or go straight to the references to track down the studies.Sanjeevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09522727136330797375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-44949477934835330312012-03-28T20:58:19.108-07:002012-03-28T20:58:19.108-07:00> I have assumed the baby needs more
when taki...> I have assumed the baby needs more<br /><br />when taking care of a baby; not been a parent myself yetSanjeevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09522727136330797375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-59675993744790916942012-03-28T20:53:50.169-07:002012-03-28T20:53:50.169-07:00> FR does not directly apply to infants, as inf...> FR does not directly apply to infants, as infants cannot directly control their food intake<br />___<br />When sated they can refuse to eat more, leaving some in the bottle.<br /><br />And when a parent sees the baby trying to get more out of an empty bottle I have assumed the baby needs more, I assume any parent would think the baby needs more. <br /><br />We need mothers who have breast fed to tell us who controls the amount ...Sanjeevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09522727136330797375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-64183688151128958112012-03-28T20:25:24.428-07:002012-03-28T20:25:24.428-07:00IcedCoffee said...
"@Nigel,
I'm just tryi...IcedCoffee said...<br />"@Nigel,<br />I'm just trying to flesh out your argument. Babies try to increase food intake by crying: Do they succeed?"<br />Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no.<br /><br />"Are you suggesting that babies are being overfed?"<br />Yes.<br /><br />"Or are you suggesting that infant obesity results from a separate mechanism, and food reward kicks in later?"<br />No. Food reward only becomes relevant when the infant can get his/her own food.Nigel Kinbrumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03368973941328529619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-25025206470756094082012-03-28T07:49:07.100-07:002012-03-28T07:49:07.100-07:00@Nigel,
I'm just trying to flesh out your argu...@Nigel,<br />I'm just trying to flesh out your argument. Babies try to increase food intake by crying: Do they succeed? Are you suggesting that babies are being overfed? Or are you suggesting that infant obesity results from a separate mechanism, and food reward kicks in later?Scott Russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17221933596021597469noreply@blogger.com