tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post3014148618858196989..comments2024-02-25T02:24:14.972-08:00Comments on Whole Health Source: Lessons From Ötzi, the Tyrolean Ice Man. Part IStephan Guyenethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-14691253782149611792014-02-13T14:54:04.149-08:002014-02-13T14:54:04.149-08:00I'm watching a documentary about Otzi. They ar...I'm watching a documentary about Otzi. They are saying researchers are confused about his age because his wisdom teeth are intact which indicates he was very young. Well, I'm 41 years old and my wisdom teeth are intact still. In fact they have never broke through the gumline. So how can research possibly determine age by this?Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17341791495862987710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-62473715698022700342012-05-02T00:20:27.145-07:002012-05-02T00:20:27.145-07:00Good post, if a little short, I sat down thinking ...Good post, if a little short, I sat down thinking I was going to read a nice long diatribe, and was through it in less than a minute, no worries, on to part 2.<br /><br />The comments have proved interesting so far, let's see where they end up.<br /><br />Cheers<br />George Super Boot CampsGeorge Adventures In Healthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16675916166211020335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-35870575401504027622012-04-21T03:03:44.273-07:002012-04-21T03:03:44.273-07:00@Stalin
I checked the New York Times article agai...@Stalin<br /><br />I checked the New York Times article again and it says<br /><br />'life expectancy for people in the isolated traditional villages, according to a 1986 medical study, was only 53 years for men and 52 for women.'<br /><br />It doesn't say the study was published, which might explain why I can't find it.Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-23406248182617860932012-04-19T02:08:47.456-07:002012-04-19T02:08:47.456-07:00Nice article. I'm interested in finding out w...Nice article. I'm interested in finding out what his genome says.Samhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02003071666378278422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-55991215525900495872012-04-19T01:53:30.146-07:002012-04-19T01:53:30.146-07:00@Stalin
Yes, I followed up the Wikipedia referenc...@Stalin<br /><br />Yes, I followed up the Wikipedia reference as I mentioned, and found the New York Times article which talks about a paper published in 1986 saying the Hunza life expectancies are as you say. This is the paper I cannot find. I am not necessarily saying it doesn't exist, I just need to see it.Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-37354756089435286162012-04-18T13:32:42.894-07:002012-04-18T13:32:42.894-07:00@ jane
Wikipedia@ jane<br /><br />Wikipediacomrade_stalinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13075454664838699155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-77049084916241727512012-04-17T08:15:48.756-07:002012-04-17T08:15:48.756-07:00What ref 3 also doesn't mention is that the ar...What ref 3 also doesn't mention is that the arrowhead was not officially discovered until <b>after</b> a full-body x-ray of Oetzi was displayed - behind the pathologist in charge of his examination - in a documentary. There's a lot to be said about foregone conclusions. I'll be interested to see what <i>you've</i> found!Laurenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10703308019856972175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-32649053763772744662012-04-16T03:54:42.008-07:002012-04-16T03:54:42.008-07:00@Stalin
I cannot find the paper showing the Hunza...@Stalin<br /><br />I cannot find the paper showing the Hunza life expectancies you mention. Please could you find it for me? I followed up your Wikipedia reference and I think it might be inaccurate.<br /><br />I did find a 1990 article entitled 'Household food supply in Hunza valley, Pakistan', which discusses Hunza longevity and ought to mention your paper, which was supposedly published 4 years earlier, but does not.<br /><br />The Hunza are certainly not particularly healthy today. The population has increased to over 45,000, whereas in the early days it wasn't much more than 5,000. From The Wheel of Health: <br /><br />'..Here dwell the Hunza, whose numbers Major Biddulph in Tribes of the Hindoo Koosh (1880) roughly calculated as 6,ooo people, but who have, since the census was instituted about 1911, it seems increased, to their detriment, to 14,000.'Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-84462911231480299662012-04-15T05:42:40.205-07:002012-04-15T05:42:40.205-07:00Good stuff. Thank you so so much for sharing your ...Good stuff. Thank you so so much for sharing your knowledge with world through the Internet. Wonderful blog and post you got hereonline pharmacy no prescriptionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12247350561233128373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-41116255971505126622012-04-15T03:18:32.216-07:002012-04-15T03:18:32.216-07:00Nice Article man...I found some articles on the di...Nice Article man...I found some articles on the discovery also but this is not in them. well thanks for posting ..Me also providing a little help with my blog Http://www.doctorlabs.blogspot.com <br />If you need any health problem solution . feel free to visit any time. thanks again man..Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01464465961873913319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-20348489333084069312012-04-14T11:34:35.517-07:002012-04-14T11:34:35.517-07:00Food can be stored without refrigeration.. and was...Food can be stored without refrigeration.. and was. Grains could be stored http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/food/2009/07/discovered-a-prehistoric-pantry/<br /><br />as well as meat, by use of cold dark caves, or salt, or smoking/drying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-12373897635241334922012-04-14T11:32:49.158-07:002012-04-14T11:32:49.158-07:00@jane
You could dump in front of me 100 16 wheele...@jane<br /><br />You could dump in front of me 100 16 wheelers full of books and it doesn't mean squat.<br /><br />The facts are that Hunza people - with their miraculous diet, according to you - have a life expectancy of 53 years for men and 52 for women.<br /><br />This is pathethic! It's even worst than US on SAD.comrade_stalinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13075454664838699155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-68051680623514360282012-04-14T09:29:45.769-07:002012-04-14T09:29:45.769-07:00Problems caused or not caused by grain eating prob...Problems caused or not caused by grain eating probably depend on many factors including, what grain, how much grain, and what else was eaten. I'm sure there was also some amount of genetic adaptation to grain. Evolution never stops. If one eats original natural grains, that probably helps and if one eats lot so fresh other natural food besides grain, the probably helps too. Phytic acid does not block ALL nutrients, just a percentage and it does depend on when it is eaten compared to other foods. Plus if you eat a bunch of liver with your grains, you are still going to absorb some nutrients from that liver. I'd also bet that many could eat some grain and show no major ill effects as long as the rest of the food was healthy. Part of the prob in the USA is we have the perfect storm of mostly grain and sugar eating plus processed foods and chemicals, plus very very little good food eaten by most people. Otzi probably did not have tons of sugar, alhtough interestingly, he did have that arsenic. Humans have probably always had to deal with poisons, just not so many of them as now and not with such a crappy diet otherwise as well.Evahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18224463305848437035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-38160184539312251312012-04-14T03:58:24.688-07:002012-04-14T03:58:24.688-07:00Jane, Allison and Stalin,
Whether grains block mi...Jane, Allison and Stalin,<br /><br />Whether grains block mineral absorption or not is only an issue when the grains are eaten WITH other foods. Since there was no refrigeration 50,000 years ago, we can assume Ötzi ate his red deer whenever he could get it, and relatively on the spot. Not as a dish mixed up with bread or grain that have been waiting on a supermarket shelf for ages.<br /><br />Grains are seasonal when you don't have storage means. Same goes for meat, so they were likely not eaten at the same meal, or at least pretty seldom. Hence no mineral blockage during most meals.gunther gathererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15361732213105267048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-47270670403642730562012-04-14T03:57:38.165-07:002012-04-14T03:57:38.165-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.gunther gathererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15361732213105267048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-17483964910621405742012-04-14T03:08:26.092-07:002012-04-14T03:08:26.092-07:00@Stalin
I am very interested to hear that The Whe...@Stalin<br /><br />I am very interested to hear that The Wheel of Health has been discredited. Please can you give me the reference? This must mean that McCarrison's work has been discredited too. I think Stephan will be wanting to remove him from his Nutritional Hall of Fame.Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-12907641692091741042012-04-14T02:59:52.110-07:002012-04-14T02:59:52.110-07:00@Allison
It's true there are papers showing t...@Allison<br /><br />It's true there are papers showing that phytic acid inhibits mineral absorption. There are just as many papers showing it doesn't. The chemistry is complex. There are even papers showing it improves copper absorption. <br /><br />It does inhibit iron absorption, and this is thought by many people to be an advantage. Iron cannot be excreted, and iron overload is implicated as a cause of many common diseases. The idea that prehistoric (grain-eating) farmers had iron deficiency has been called into serious question.<br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19280675<br /><br />We can discuss Mellanby's experiments on phytic acid and dental health if you like. There is an alternative explanation for his finding that oatmeal made children's tooth decay worse. If you look up 'phytate caries' you will find studies showing it can PREVENT tooth decay. <br /><br />'The incidence of dental caries [was] determined in groups of monkeys fed a cariogenic diet for 3 years in which sucrose was supplemented with phytate or pyridoxine... Only phytate effected a marked reduction in the incidence of caries... Phytate has been shown to be cariostatic in rodents [5 refs]...'<br /><br />http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowAbstractBuch&ArtikelNr=260428&ProduktNr=248244Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-87945017816186892922012-04-13T12:36:12.903-07:002012-04-13T12:36:12.903-07:00So grain-eating qualifies as lack of meat? And yo...So grain-eating qualifies as lack of meat? And you know, worn molars could only be from wheat, not from chewing on things like harsh leather when they were fabricating spears and other tools. Also, I guess the spears and tools were just for hunting tall grass and the leather they obtained was from some magical trees....Asimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12680880808056066311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-4462117055851326312012-04-13T12:12:52.900-07:002012-04-13T12:12:52.900-07:00@jane:
My source is wikipedia, not obscure, discr...@jane:<br /><br />My source is wikipedia, not obscure, discredited, non-academic books from the 1930s.comrade_stalinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13075454664838699155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-18614099807885687842012-04-13T11:14:04.837-07:002012-04-13T11:14:04.837-07:00@ Jane
1977? I think you can find more current (...@ Jane<br /><br />1977? I think you can find more current (and higher quality) data from readily-available sources, including WHS:<br /><br />"The most basic method of preparing grains is prolonged soaking in water, followed by cooking. This combination reduces the level of water-soluble and heat-sensitive toxins and anti-nutrients such as tannins, saponins, digestive enzyme inhibitors and lectins, as well as flatulence factors. It also partially degrades phytic acid, which is a potent inhibitor of mineral absorption, an inhibitor of the digestive enzyme trypsin and an enemy of dental health (1). This improves the digestibility and nutritional value of grains as well as legumes."<br /><br />http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/search/label/lectins<br /><br />I encourage you to continue your research, starting with the tab on this website labelled "Phytic Acid."allisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00035675984343369850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-81319292684613335542012-04-13T04:06:49.310-07:002012-04-13T04:06:49.310-07:00@Stalin
What have you read about the Hunza? Have...@Stalin<br /><br />What have you read about the Hunza? Have you read The Wheel of Health? I can't imagine you'd say 'grain eating kills' if you had. There are articles on the web questioning the idea that the Hunza were particularly healthy, and the most-read article does not mention The Wheel of Health, which was published in 1938 and should have been a primary source. Nor does it mention McCarrison, even more surprisingly. <br /><br />The Hunza population doubled around the time of British involvement there, and the resulting food shortages led to a decline in their health. You need to read about them as they were previously.Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-80098709046686163932012-04-13T03:26:50.192-07:002012-04-13T03:26:50.192-07:00@Allison
Thanks, that's very interesting. So...@Allison<br /><br />Thanks, that's very interesting. Sounds like Otzi's wheat 'bread' was quite like Hunza bread: coarsely ground wheat made into thin cakes cooked briefly on a hot stone. Not fermented. <br /><br />Here's what an article in the BMJ in 1977 had to say about phytic acid:<br /><br />'The evidence incriminating phytic acid, based on relatively brief studies on humans and animals, is often at variance with epidemiological evidence... In South Africa Blacks in rural areas are accustomed to a relatively high intake of phytic acid. Yet our<br />studies on groups on very high intakes compared with those on lower intakes have revealed no differences in mean haematological<br />values, whether in children or adults. Observations on contrasting groups have revealed no<br />differences in mean serum calcium levels, nor in the mean cortical thickness or other dimensions of the second metacarpal. Indeed,<br />we have found satisfactory calcification even in groups of mothers who have had numerous<br />pregnancies and long lactations. Nor in the groups mentioned have we found differences in the growth rate of children. In our appreciation, Third World experience does not support<br />the view that phytic acid is significantly prejudicial to mineral metabolism or to health.'Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-72356141148378629902012-04-12T20:50:39.414-07:002012-04-12T20:50:39.414-07:00@ Jane
Actually, Otzi's stomach contents and ...@ Jane<br /><br />Actually, Otzi's stomach contents and worn molars indicated he ate wheat, or more precisely, einkorn (a primitive species of wheat). <br /><br />The kernels were only partially ground (probably beaten with a rock)and then cooked into small cakes on an open fire. <br /><br />Otzi's people obviously had not yet learned to ferment their grains to neutralize the phytic acid. And as any educated grain eater should know, phytic acid is a chelating agent that interferes with mineral absorption by the body. <br /><br />Otzi has the deformed look of someone suffering from a mineral deficiency, which may have been attributable to his grain diet. <br /><br />I don't know about the Hunza, but they may very well ferment their grains, as most primitive cultures do. I do know this: I've never seen a mineral deficient carnivore.allisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00035675984343369850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-21472899591214171942012-04-12T10:08:43.421-07:002012-04-12T10:08:43.421-07:00He seems awfully pale...He seems awfully pale...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13673897450580940296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-62101231926084052532012-04-12T09:21:41.646-07:002012-04-12T09:21:41.646-07:00At least this guy didn't have to worry about P...At least this guy didn't have to worry about PETA..Asimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12680880808056066311noreply@blogger.com