tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post6110755506202496290..comments2024-02-25T02:24:14.972-08:00Comments on Whole Health Source: High-Fat Diets, Obesity and Brain DamageStephan Guyenethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comBlogger68125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-75934679469646004682015-12-31T00:16:40.579-08:002015-12-31T00:16:40.579-08:00Hi Stephan
I wonder if the casein in the diet is ...Hi Stephan<br /><br />I wonder if the casein in the diet is confounding your results:<br />http://www.larabriden.com/the-inflammation-from-a1-milk-is-mind-boggling/<br /><br />Kind regards<br /><br />Mark Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04161812104790322600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-14862151574546433672012-01-25T12:54:56.581-08:002012-01-25T12:54:56.581-08:00Stefan,
I'm curious whether you believe t...Stefan, <br /><br /> I'm curious whether you believe this hypothalamic change to be pathological or just adaptive? If it is adaptive it raises the question of what advantage it confers.TCO348https://www.blogger.com/profile/15972478226700429070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-44783789434668985962012-01-18T10:31:50.253-08:002012-01-18T10:31:50.253-08:00hi stephan - i understand your intent to communica...hi stephan - i understand your intent to communicate with the academic community and the resulting choice of words, but it would be irresponsible and potentially unethical to pretend things happen in a vacuum. obviously the media will pick this up, and i think that the authors have a bit of a responsibility to be as clear as possible in order to do everything they can to avoid misrepresentations. it isn't a perfect world and some media will still twist words and facts to sell their product, but that doesn't absolve people in your position.<br /><br /><br />thanks,<br /><br />joshjoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15403126940975697956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-54187464798599613502012-01-14T21:53:18.418-08:002012-01-14T21:53:18.418-08:00This work must be really appreciated.
Regards
Ho...This work must be really appreciated. <br /><br />Regards<br /><a href="http://www.hoodiapure.co.uk" rel="nofollow">Hoodia Weight Loss Pills<br /></a>vijihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02035721724217420749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-12140695894461211932012-01-14T08:20:28.676-08:002012-01-14T08:20:28.676-08:00Maltodextrin is ~derived~ from various starches (d...Maltodextrin is ~derived~ from various starches (depending on the country of origin) not classified as a starch. Maltodextrin is classified as a sugar based on dextrin equivalent (DE). DE is a dry measure of reducing sugars in a sugar product.<br /><br />Starch has 0% DE. Glucose/dextrose has 100% DE. Maltodextrin ranges from 3 to 20% DE. Maltodextrin is a common additive in soda, candy bars, and beer.rrustadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03809458716063494072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-38570115518811231972012-01-11T06:15:00.459-08:002012-01-11T06:15:00.459-08:00Drugs are good, because they cure diseases, let us...Drugs are good, because they cure diseases, let us good. They can be toxic when they are granted. There are tips that will help you know what you need to do, especially when you are in any drug or treatment.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.associatedstairlifts.co.uk" rel="nofollow">Stair lift</a>chief gabrilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12508507717414183668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-88276654541779841452012-01-09T11:12:41.582-08:002012-01-09T11:12:41.582-08:00What about arachidonic acid and neuro inflammation...What about arachidonic acid and neuro inflammation<br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ_36x33NYc&feature=BFa&list=PL53AA35449C7DD652&lf=BFa#t=4m14s" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ_36x33NYc&feature=BFa&list=PL53AA35449C7DD652&lf=BFa#t=4m14s</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPjd_W5EfGU&feature=BFa&list=PL53AA35449C7DD652&index=46#t=15m54s" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPjd_W5EfGU&feature=BFa&list=PL53AA35449C7DD652&index=46#t=15m54s</a><br /><br />Eades, Kresser and McClearly never replied<br /><a href="http://twitter.com/#!/rmorranis/status/97354379929198592" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/#!/rmorranis/status/97354379929198592</a><br /><a href="http://twitter.com/#!/rmorranis/status/97642734344613888" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/#!/rmorranis/status/97642734344613888</a>rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09851778022532692163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-80099253611368572732012-01-09T02:28:07.648-08:002012-01-09T02:28:07.648-08:00thanks.....!!
Advertising Marketthanks.....!!<br /><a href="http://www.bharatbook.com/market-research-report/Advertising.html" rel="nofollow"><br />Advertising Market</a>Market Research Reportshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01338849502816267355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-48113003566264673862012-01-09T01:08:24.293-08:002012-01-09T01:08:24.293-08:00This is a perfect example of the disconnect betwe...This is a perfect example of the disconnect between the way the scientific method works and the way that science is communicated to the media and the public. THe study wanted to look at if and how obesity was associated with changes in the brain. They can't experiment on humans (because it involves slicing up and examining brains), so they use the lab mouse. To do the study, they have to make the mice obese. There's an easy, reliable, fast way to do that (the HFD), so that's what they do. The result is very interesting, if you are a mouse.<br /><br />THe problem is that the media and their audience are interested in humans, not mice, and in the whole diet/obesity/brain spectrum, not just the little bit that's analyzed here. The disconnect comes when the results are applied far beyond the field where they are, in fact, applicable. (i.e. to humans and to human nutrition). This happens all the time.<br /><br />I worked for many years in the media/press office of a scientific institution and I know from personal experience that you have to be VERY, very careful how you word things in order to avoid misinterpretation, and often, even if you're careful, the research results are misinterpreted anyway. ANd I also know from first-hand experience that many people working in institutional press offices aren't very careful because their job is to get the name of the institution in the news in as many outlets as possible - so they deliberately make things sensationalist in order to attract attention. Sometimes the scientists can override them, sometimes they can't. (it's not always easy to get a good explanation out of a scientist, either, BTW. I'd have been happy writing a press release on the research based on Stephen's explanation!)<br /><br />Bottom line - go to the source if you find a news item about science interesting, and good luck with the jargon.Mary Parlangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10590224070853872033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-45409507811042271662012-01-07T15:00:32.162-08:002012-01-07T15:00:32.162-08:00@inmybackpages - Whether maltodextrin is classifie...@inmybackpages - Whether maltodextrin is classified more as a sugar or a starch depends on the degree of hydrolysis of the glycosidic bonds. It's a POLYsaccharide, not even necessarily an OLIGOsaccharide. I refer you to any of the biochem experts swimming in the blogosphere if you would like to pursue this further.<br /><br />Maybe you're not trying to nitpick, but that's how it comes across to me. So if you're going to nitpick, at least do your homework first.<br /><br />Also, I'm pretty sure the breakdown of D12942 is recorded pretty clearly somewhere easily accessible to obesity researchers, and Stephan did not have to (mis-)calculate anything himself.P2ZRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06156172615124219665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-86248236169803856362012-01-07T12:23:41.428-08:002012-01-07T12:23:41.428-08:00@Stephan:
Did you actually measure the respective...@Stephan:<br /><br />Did you actually measure the respective proportions of saturated fat, unsaturated fat, and polyunsaturated fat in the lard?<br /><br />Theoretically, lard is supposed to be "only" about 11% PUFA, but I believe it can be much higher, depending on what the pigs were fed. I don't live in the USA, but I've heard that some commercial American lards can be not far off being liquid at room temperature, which would suggest a high level of unsaturation.<br /><br />You quoted:<br /><b><br />Note that Josh Thaler, in the interview, did not state that eating fat causes neuron injury, he stated that eating the "typical American diet" MAY lead to neuron injury. That is a very accurate representation of what we found.<br /></b><br /><br />Does the typical American eat lard as 90% of the fat content of her diet? I would be surprised, and if not, then I don't see how your last sentence follows.montmorencyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879422255762834319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-64185961687130197932012-01-06T18:24:13.892-08:002012-01-06T18:24:13.892-08:00D12942 is not 6% sugar, it's 20% sugar. Your c...D12942 is not 6% sugar, it's 20% sugar. Your calculation is based only on sucrose and you left out maltodextrin.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07447112980663025336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-83186029464972987662012-01-06T14:43:45.378-08:002012-01-06T14:43:45.378-08:00Fascinating research Stephan
Well done for all yo...Fascinating research Stephan<br /><br />Well done for all you hard work and dedication to your regular posts.<br /><br />The sad truth is that this comment may represent the reality. Your paper fairly raises the issue.<br /><br />Science has as yet to sort out and agree why, but it is certain that oxidative stress will be there in the mix.<br /><br />• "....brain injury may be a consequence of the overconsumption of a typical American diet ..." said...author Joshua Thaler...Robert Andrew Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05181027811602620374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-23749710075318514382012-01-06T10:38:57.115-08:002012-01-06T10:38:57.115-08:00Hi JBG,
I deliberately selected media headlines f...Hi JBG,<br /><br />I deliberately selected media headlines for my post that presented the finding in a sensationalistic way. I was trying to make the point, subtly, that the finding had been misrepresented by some sources. <br /><br />I agree that we should have described the diet in more detail in the methods section. I didn't write the manuscript (although to be clear I did review it) and I wasn't first or last author, so I didn't have much control over the wording. I did have some control, since I reviewed it, and that is something I should have emphasized but it slipped under my radar. The methods section often doesn't get scrutinized as much as the rest of the manuscript.<br /><br />Note that Josh Thaler, in the interview, did not state that eating fat causes neuron injury, he stated that eating the "typical American diet" MAY lead to neuron injury. That is a very accurate representation of what we found.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-26777724741479384182012-01-06T09:21:57.022-08:002012-01-06T09:21:57.022-08:00Although the proposed added three words (or someth...Although the proposed added three words (or something like them) at the beginning of the abstract to provide a red flag that an attentive person could be expected to notice would be the crucial change for the present case, it would also be desirable down in the Methods section to provide a sentence or two describing D12492. All this thinking, of course, is intended to influence future practice, the present case being water over the dam.<br /><br />A thought has occurred to me, however, that leads me to offer to desist altogether from pursuing this. I realize, Stephan, that even if you were persuaded, it would be awkward for you to say so, since it would imply criticism of decisions embodied in the paper that were made (consciously or not) by the senior author/s.<br /><br />So, having said my piece, I’m willing to shut up.JBGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04335845681080553536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-70985123544351857832012-01-06T05:00:24.595-08:002012-01-06T05:00:24.595-08:00Hi Stephan,
Excellent post!
This was another cla...Hi Stephan,<br /><br />Excellent post!<br /><br />This was another classic example of lazy media misreporting of science research. It was refreshing to see one of the authors of this study willing and able to point this out in a candid way.<br /><br />As a "specialist" science reporting source, Science Direct in particular should be thoroughly ashamed of their negligent "headline".<br /><br />It was also good to see the paper published as open access. This enabled me to read the original paper and conclude that the "sensational" Sydney Morning Herald headline sent to me by a colleague was simply not correct. More papers should be open access, instead of being locked behind expensive pay-walls affordable only be wealthy individuals and large institutions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-20663675597658286372012-01-05T22:32:28.666-08:002012-01-05T22:32:28.666-08:00Obesity does not just happen instantaneously, it p...Obesity does not just happen instantaneously, it produces progressively from poor living alternatives and, somewhat, from your body's genes. Way of life alternatives are an essential aspect in having an influence on your weight. Eating more calories than you need may be down to unhealthy diet.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.pureedgenutrition.com/Insane_Amp_d_p/insamp.htm" rel="nofollow">Insane Detox</a>Maxxy Panehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17031238880156425152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-48086905758403549202012-01-05T19:09:08.442-08:002012-01-05T19:09:08.442-08:00Stephan, I do not mean to be argumentative, but ob...Stephan, I do not mean to be argumentative, but observe how easy it would be to virtually exclude the troublesome misinterpretation (initial sentence of abstract): <br /><br />Rodent models of obesity induced by consuming the artificial high-fat diet (HFD) D12492 are characterized...<br /><br />You say, “...many media outlets reported the finding accurately...” but the four you name all got it wrong, in a couple cases blatantly wrong. In order:<br /><br />• Researchers...fed an American-style high-fat diet to lab rats...<br /><br />• "....brain injury may be a consequence of the overconsumption of a typical American diet ..." said...author Joshua Thaler...<br /><br />• Pass it on: Eating a high-fat diet may change the brain in ways that makes it harder to lose weight.<br /><br />• [Headline:] Brain injury from high-fat foods may be why diets fail<br /><br />The fact that the paper used “careful wording” that “does not state or imply” the problematic misinterpretation is logic chopping, given that almost anyone NOT in the researcher in-group almost certainly would get the wrong idea. I would say that taking a big step to prevent that would be worth three extra words.JBGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04335845681080553536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-20816051175861437382012-01-05T18:15:41.759-08:002012-01-05T18:15:41.759-08:00Another egregious misreporting of the article
htt...Another egregious misreporting of the article<br /><br />http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/diet-and-fitness/fatty-diet-damages-brain--study-20120104-1pl9l.html<br /><br />The quote from the bot at the Baker-IDI Institute just shows how bad we have it herepaddleperilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12381442577866459922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-15955489268459949992012-01-05T10:56:20.242-08:002012-01-05T10:56:20.242-08:00@Asim,
I agree, and I understand not all inflamma...@Asim,<br /><br />I agree, and I understand not all inflammation is bad. My question was not in regards to the effects of inflammation from exercise. It was whether or not exercise augments the inflammation caused by excess calories. According to Stephan's response, it would appear that since exercise (depending on the exercise) enhances nutrient partitioning, it is not the same kind, or level of inflammation.Armi Leggehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06851662556845042693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-80276227992430496592012-01-05T10:36:10.240-08:002012-01-05T10:36:10.240-08:00Here is a great link on inflammation and excercise...Here is a great link on inflammation and excercise:<br /><br />http://sweatscience.com/how-neutrophils-boost-or-weaken-your-immune-system-after-exercise/Asimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12680880808056066311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-41469648332464179842012-01-05T10:32:46.725-08:002012-01-05T10:32:46.725-08:00Armi,
Not all inflammation is bad. It's a bi...Armi,<br /><br />Not all inflammation is bad. It's a biological response against pathogens and tissue damage. When your "ripping" your muscles through intense weight training, your creating a state of inflammation to repait the muscle tissue. In the case of exercise, your going to have to increase your caloric intake.<br /><br />When people of science, not pseuod-science, speak about inflammation being a problem, it's in reality, in the total context of the "Western" diet. If your constantly triggering inflammation, in the long wrong you'll see a rise in metabolic disorders. <br /><br />http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/inflammation-both-friend-and-foe/Asimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12680880808056066311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-14097428754016892132012-01-05T10:00:32.344-08:002012-01-05T10:00:32.344-08:00Hi Armi,
I'm not sure. If you're overeat...Hi Armi,<br /><br />I'm not sure. If you're overeating but also working out such that the energy is going into muscle building, I wouldn't necessarily think it would cause inflammation.<br /><br />Hi bopes,<br /><br />Interesting. I don't think they demonstrated that the effect was not via reward circuits though. They assumed this was the case because food intake wasn't different, but they never actually tested reward function. Actually, their measurement of food intake itself seems to have been pretty cursory so they could have easily missed a difference that occurred at an earlier time point. <br /><br />But the point is that reward circuits connect with hypothalamic circuits that regulate body fatness (as they mentioned in the paper). These hypothalamic circuits influence both food intake and energy expenditure. So it's entirely possible that the mice gained fat due to reduced energy expenditure because of abnormal activation of reward circuits connecting to the hypothalamus.<br /><br />Hi Pete,<br /><br />Standard lab rodents are not sick. We measure their body fat content, insulin/leptin levels, food intake etc. all the time in my lab. On regular unpurified chow, young adult rats and mice are ~5-12% body fat as measured by MRI. If you let them age for a while, they do get fatter, but that's mostly because they're sedentary. If you put a running wheel in the cage, they stay much leaner. <br /><br />Hi JBG,<br /><br />Our primary objective is to do good science and communicate it accurately to the scientific community, and that is what we have done. We were careful in the wording not to imply things that we didn't find. The fact is, many media outlets reported the finding accurately, so it's not as if it was written in a way that made it difficult to understand. Those outlets that didn't report it accurately, did so because they wanted the story to be 1) more sensational/impactful, and 2) more actionable. This is how the media works, and we can't change that.<br /><br />As far as I can understand, the objection that some people have to the paper's wording revolves entirely around the use of the abbreviation "HFD" to describe the rodent diet we used. As I said, this is standard research terminology, and it isn't exactly an outrageous way to describe a diet that is 60% fat, 20% carb and 20% protein. I'm sorry, but that does not constitute being misleading, given the careful wording we used throughout the paper. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the paper does not state or imply anywhere that dietary fat causes neuron injury in humans.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-50244469676182735262012-01-05T08:34:52.651-08:002012-01-05T08:34:52.651-08:00Stephan, I'm afraid I can't agree.
The pa...Stephan, I'm afraid I can't agree.<br /><br />The paper in question is a technical one concerned with brain physiology. There is no legitimate reason for it to come to the attention of the general public at all.<br /><br />The way the diet used in the paper is phrased (it is not anywhere in the paper actually described) would lead almost any lay reader to the wrong conclusion. To expect a science reporter, or even a medical reporter, to figure the situation out (ie, to find the single mention of D12492 and look it up on his own) is unreasonable. The media is not to blame for the problem in this case.<br /><br />Surely it would be possible to craft a sentence, a single sentence, to include in the abstract that would tip off reporters to what the case actually is. I see it as a responsibility of academic authors to have the media problem in mind and to take appropriate action to fend off likely misinterpretations. The human diet situation is complicated enough without such unnecessary additions to the confusion.JBGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04335845681080553536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-91712013084760760982012-01-05T04:27:35.448-08:002012-01-05T04:27:35.448-08:00According to this article (http://www.slate.com/ar...According to this article (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/the_mouse_trap/2011/11/lab_mice_are_they_limiting_our_understanding_of_human_disease_.html), lab mice have been experiencing an obesity epidemic way before us humans. How can feeding an animal that's already sick a high-this-or-that diet prove anything?Petehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10708630752848505853noreply@blogger.com