tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post6171515019757414594..comments2024-02-25T02:24:14.972-08:00Comments on Whole Health Source: Paleolithic Diet Clinical Trials Part IIStephan Guyenethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-1973092699629004432008-10-25T14:12:00.000-07:002008-10-25T14:12:00.000-07:00Stephan,What a coincidence!I'm OK with good qualit...Stephan,<BR/><BR/>What a coincidence!<BR/><BR/>I'm OK with good quality dairy. It's not paleo, but it is a good source of fat-soluble vitamins. I'm not strict about paleo. There are cultures who have successfully incorporated certain grains and dairy into their diets without ill effect. Several of the healthy cultures that Weston Price studied ate dairy, and a number of them ate grains (only one ate gluten though- sourdough rye). The grains were often thoroughly fermented, and always soaked or sprouted.<BR/><BR/>I try to focus on fermented dairy and concentrated sources of dairy fat like cream and butter.<BR/><BR/>I'll send you an e-mail.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-73589088426123735882008-10-25T13:23:00.000-07:002008-10-25T13:23:00.000-07:00This is too bizarre. I also spent my childhood su...This is too bizarre. I also spent my childhood summers by the sea (near Nice) getting advice not to cut the fat off my meat. And I too am a PhD candidate in neuroscience (systems, electrophysiology of auditory cortex). But I do also remember our meals being extremely slow, with tons of salad and vegetables and tomatoes and courgettes and many other delicious locally grown veggies. Ah, yes, and the chocolate, and even a little wine. So how does the paleolithic diet square with getting your vit. K2 from wonders like pate and cheese? -marguet- @rutgers(edu)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00995442887926745345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-86690839421418421752008-10-11T14:03:00.000-07:002008-10-11T14:03:00.000-07:00Elizabeth,True enough. I think counting calories ...Elizabeth,<BR/><BR/>True enough. I think counting calories is better than nothing though. At least we have some basis for comparing between diets.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-48382759145500819692008-10-11T13:40:00.000-07:002008-10-11T13:40:00.000-07:00Why do we use "calories" as a measuring tool anywa...Why do we use "calories" as a measuring tool anyway. Seems like it isn't accurate at all on what the body utilizes when we eat. We don't "burn" calories in our bodies anyway. We utilize everything differently. The only thing that "burns" calories are the scientists in the labs trying to determine what foods are "fattening" or not.<BR/><BR/>kinda wierd.Elizabeth Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00874896413144003125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-58644862624355965472008-10-07T19:01:00.000-07:002008-10-07T19:01:00.000-07:00"Each patient did a 4-day weighed food record usin..."Each patient did a 4-day weighed food record using a digital scale."<BR/><BR/>Maybe they were following the rules on those days, but on their own the rules went out the window. Unless a study was done under metabolic ward conditions, the calorie intakes are always dubious IMO. You have to put subjects under lock and key with 24 hour observation, or calorie counts are just a wild guess.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-61820483930600099322008-10-07T18:19:00.000-07:002008-10-07T18:19:00.000-07:00Debs,Good points. It would be interesting to see ...Debs,<BR/><BR/>Good points. It would be interesting to see what these people would have looked like after a year. <BR/><BR/>Bruce,<BR/><BR/>Each patient did a 4-day weighed food record using a digital scale.<BR/><BR/>Brian,<BR/><BR/>I didn't see any baseline data in Lindeberg's paper so I don't know what the change was. The difference in weight loss wasn't just fat. The difference in fat mass loss was only 1.6 kg, while the rest was "fat-free mass" and water. So it actually doesn't agree with "calories in, calories out". <BR/><BR/>Gunther,<BR/><BR/>Keep in mind that both groups started off borderline obese. That level of caloric intake would not have been sustainable for them once they had burned off their excess fat. It would be interesting to see what caloric intake they would stabilize at upon reaching equilibrium.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-75195152008077887242008-10-07T12:50:00.000-07:002008-10-07T12:50:00.000-07:00I'm still not understanding how the paleo group en...I'm still not understanding how the paleo group ended up eating only about 1400 calories a day. If calories are the issue, then we're back to square one contesting the calorie is a calorie theory, which we know to be wrong.<BR/><BR/>And don't pre-agricultural peoples eat up to 3000-3500 calories a day? This is also the estimate for paleolithic diets, judging by Cordain's own research.gunther gathererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15361732213105267048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-39826611352056018862008-10-07T07:08:00.000-07:002008-10-07T07:08:00.000-07:00Stephan, great review. Was there a change in calor...Stephan, great review. Was there a change in caloric consumption reported in the 2nd study? Scanning it quickly, I didn't see it. I've never been one to believe the calories in/out was as simple as stated, but looking at these data has me thinking. The consensus diet consumed 350 calories per day more. Over the course of the study, that is 3.6 pounds. The difference in weight loss at week 12 is 3.5 pounds. Interesting, no? <BR/><BR/>So does this raise a flag for all those claiming metabolic advantage? Should the argument come from a health perspective? I just don't know. Sometimes I feel like the more I read and think I understand, the dumber I get. <BR/><BR/>Brianbrianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09087010559814701433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-70693361451095648502008-10-07T00:42:00.000-07:002008-10-07T00:42:00.000-07:00Was calore intakes self-reported or did they measu...Was calore intakes self-reported or did they measure it exactly? People are notoriously inaccurate in their calorie counts, so I don't put much faith in the calorie counts if they didn't actually confirm them. Maybe people ignored the lean meat advice and still lost weight.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-66033551333073121202008-10-06T23:34:00.000-07:002008-10-06T23:34:00.000-07:00That study kicks ass. It's a shame it wasn't all ...That study kicks ass. It's a shame it wasn't all over the media, but it's very encouraging.<BR/><BR/>It's interesting that the insulin and glucose changes happened within the first six weeks for the so-called Mediterranean diet group and then leveled off, but that the numbers kept decreasing for the Paleo diet group even after six weeks. The "Mediterranean" diet seems like a short-term band-aid, whereas the Paleo diet seems like the way to repair the body's glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity for long-term health.<BR/><BR/>Something else I just noticed: the Paleo dieters ate a lot more fish, even though it was included in both diets.<BR/><BR/>Debs<BR/><A HREF="http://food.gofrolic.org" REL="nofollow">Food Is Love</A>Debshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09217281333751656056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-75122745466480420542008-10-06T22:24:00.000-07:002008-10-06T22:24:00.000-07:00G,Thanks, you're good for my self-esteem!G,<BR/><BR/>Thanks, you're good for my self-esteem!Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-82853457765575590112008-10-06T17:53:00.000-07:002008-10-06T17:53:00.000-07:00Fantastic! Thanks for your review. Very interesti...Fantastic! Thanks for your review. Very interesting how Mediterrean eating didn't match up as well as the Paleo.<BR/><BR/>You're so young and such a ROCKSTAR! When you speak of your Grandmere reminds me of my favorite thriller/art hx book -- Da Vinci Code!!<BR/><BR/>-GDr. B Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15451872961651116061noreply@blogger.com