tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post7979081092432954364..comments2024-02-25T02:24:14.972-08:00Comments on Whole Health Source: Polyphenols, Hormesis and Disease: Part IIStephan Guyenethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comBlogger71125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-60301269381806327472014-04-09T08:37:21.406-07:002014-04-09T08:37:21.406-07:00Hi stephan, I noticed one thing you left out.
The...Hi stephan, I noticed one thing you left out. <br />There have been studies done on certain supplements used at doses far too high to achieve from a normal diet which have shown beneficial effects. Reservratrol, curcumin and astaxanthin come to mind. <br />How do you explain high doses of these supplements having therapeutic effects if they work by hormesis? thanks. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09210534744129983587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-9128192465361566332011-11-05T02:05:47.277-07:002011-11-05T02:05:47.277-07:00Specific polyphenols can affect cells via pathways...Specific polyphenols can affect cells via pathways that are no different from those by which drugs (or in some cases hormones operate). Do pharmaceuticals then deliver their benefits through hormesis? Is this how, for example, low dose aspirin works?<br />This is the reductio ad absurdum of the hormetic polyphenol hypothesis. I think the hypothesis does have merit, but I also think you need to revisit the definition of hormesis, and study some of the specific actions of particular polyphenols - any hypothesis is but a starting point.<br />An alternative or complementary hypothesis; polyphenols are low-dose drugs, their effect is medicinal rather than nutritional.<br />Most traditional herbal medicines are polyphenol-based, and the majority of the polyphenols in a large proprotion of the world's diets are actually taken in drug form; coffee, tea, mate, coca, wine, or in spices, or in traditional medicines (e.g. hibiscus tea in Mexico)Puddleghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00953398103675945541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-6976166249326555882011-10-26T13:48:46.173-07:002011-10-26T13:48:46.173-07:00About salicylate intolerance; salicilate is detoxi...About salicylate intolerance; salicilate is detoxified by the acetyl-coA and glycine type 2 detox pathways, so could be a sign of co-enzyme A deficiency. Does salicylate intolerance correlate with lupus? A quick search shows it does: www.bmj.com/content/2/6151/1532.2.full.pdf+html<br />Pantethine, or high-dose B5 and sulfur amino acids, or a high-fat, high protein diet are indicated in either condition.<br />Megadose B5 is the standard orthomolecular treatment for lupus. This tells us something about what is going on in both conditions.Puddleghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00953398103675945541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-79655549658293810932011-10-26T13:30:18.158-07:002011-10-26T13:30:18.158-07:00"For example, long-term consumption of high-p..."For example, long-term consumption of high-polyphenol chocolate increases sunburn resistance in humans, implying that it induces a hormetic response in skin (19). Polyphenol-rich foods such as green tea reduce sunburn and skin cancer development in animals"<br /><br />Here I think you might be heading into "uneccesary hypothesis" territory. Plants evolved polyphenols to (in part) protect against UV radiation. Is it so crazy that they have the same effect in animals that consume them for the same reasons (resonance structure plus hydroxyl groups, as in synthetic sunblock?)<br />I also note the structural similarity between polyphenols and the tanning compounds formed in human skin on exposure to UV; both are polymer derivatives of aromatic amino acids.<br />And where do carotenoids fit into the hormesis theory of the rainbow?<br />They are not metabolised as toxins, yet have very similar effects on UV and cancer to polyphenols.<br />Are polyphenols hormetic to the plants that make them?Puddleghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00953398103675945541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-9155668287040913502011-06-18T10:02:41.963-07:002011-06-18T10:02:41.963-07:00You might like to check out Michael Ristow, who...You might like to check out Michael Ristow, who's done a fair bit of research into ROS induced hormesis, and the effect of antioxidants in its inhibition. Here's a couple of links:<br /><br />http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413107002562<br /><br />http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/05/11/0903485106.abstractBill Rowleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12902656337889111038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-70428797305307439852011-04-05T12:34:48.778-07:002011-04-05T12:34:48.778-07:00Here is a clue that certain dye-like substances su...Here is a clue that certain dye-like substances such as in turmeric, red wine and blueberries cling to or penetrate defective proteins in plaques and possibly mark them for destruction. Their minor toxicity also alerts homeostatic defences.<br />http://www.researchals.org/page/4746/6722/<br />The big question seems to be optimal doses. Another would be whether combinations are more effective.RIFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12080820650910068235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-72421918648793984412011-04-01T23:01:58.315-07:002011-04-01T23:01:58.315-07:00are polyphenols and flavonoids the same thing?
fl...are polyphenols and flavonoids the same thing?<br /><br />flavonids are shown to increase leukemia cancer!<br /><br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20025993benn686https://www.blogger.com/profile/14415571820563632059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-44079983154100483942011-03-18T11:23:07.081-07:002011-03-18T11:23:07.081-07:00Perhaps these substances are read by your body as ...Perhaps these substances are read by your body as a signal that it is summer, and so time to turn on the appetite, fat-burning, muscle-building, and sex hormones?Jeffrey of Troyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08012361017883221081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-11841810673716926602011-03-09T12:39:53.097-08:002011-03-09T12:39:53.097-08:00Great post Stephan as usual.
Caloric Restriction,...Great post Stephan as usual.<br /><br />Caloric Restriction, Exercise (as you said), thermal stress, Intermittent fasting, etc. All have hormetic actions.<br /><br />Another phytochemical with an hormetic action is curcumin http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19343114<br /><br />And there are various studies with curcumin in various cancer cell lines. Personally, I know a physician who uses it in colon cancer with great success.<br /><br />Keep up the great work.<br /><br />PedroPMChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17129394635417500849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-73719714569560046192011-03-08T16:22:30.266-08:002011-03-08T16:22:30.266-08:00@ Alex- I don't know if polyphenols bind with ...@ Alex- I don't know if polyphenols bind with anything to mitigate autoimmune effects, but I do know that they can be used to balance TH1 cell-mediated dominant autoimmune conditions like Crohn's, Hashimoto's (which I have) and Rheumatoid Arthritis by action of stimulating a TH2 humoral immunity response. I'm on a TH1 balancing protocol that uses a combo of polyphenols (resveratrol, green tea, pine bark, grape seed). This is not advisable if you have an autoimmune condition unless you know for sure that you're TH1 dominant (you can find out through blood testing for CD4/CD8 ratio).Pretty In Primalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01064877713438865157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-13594748562234884992011-03-04T06:24:26.668-08:002011-03-04T06:24:26.668-08:00Great points and questions, Stephan and Steve.
S...Great points and questions, Stephan and Steve.<br /><br /><br />Some vegans think plants are a panacea, and they definitely are not. There are potentially harmful compounds in them.<br /><br /><br /> A balanced diet is important, but some people think as long as they are eating plants they are completely protected from coronary disease and cancer.<br /><br /><br />As far as exercise ,I agree. People with diseases who are physically stressed will not benefit from too much exercise.They should move some - but light.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-90321033641255413702011-03-03T10:41:03.628-08:002011-03-03T10:41:03.628-08:00^eat some eggplant (aubergine)!!^eat some eggplant (aubergine)!!johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14358032048737340763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-69344319604830847292011-03-03T10:37:37.353-08:002011-03-03T10:37:37.353-08:00For those interested (from Am J Clin Nutr May 1, 2...For those interested (from Am J Clin Nutr May 1, 2004 vol. 79 no. 5 727-747 ):<br />Polyphenols: food sources and bioavailability<br /><br />TABLE 1 Polyphenols in foods<br /><br /> Source (serving size) Polyphenol content<br />By wt or vol By serving<br /> mg/kg fresh wt (or mg/L) mg/serving<br />Hydroxybenzoic acids (2, 6) Blackberry (100 g) 80–270 8–27<br /> Protocatechuic acid Raspberry (100 g) 60–100 6–10<br /> Gallic acid Black currant (100 g) 40–130 4–13<br /> p-Hydroxybenzoic acid Strawberry (200 g) 20–90 4–18<br />Hydroxycinnamic acids (2, 5–7) Blueberry (100 g) 2000–2200 200–220<br /> Caffeic acid Kiwi (100 g) 600–1000 60–100<br /> Chlorogenic acid Cherry (200 g) 180–1150 36–230<br /> Coumaric acid Plum (200 g) 140–1150 28–230<br /> Ferulic acid Aubergine (200 g) 600–660 120–132<br /> Sinapic acid Apple (200 g) 50–600 10–120<br /> Pear (200 g) 15–600 3–120<br /> Chicory (200 g) 200–500 40–100<br /> Artichoke (100 g) 450 45<br /> Potato (200 g) 100–190 20–38<br /> Corn flour (75 g) 310 23<br /> Flour: wheat, rice, oat (75 g) 70–90 5–7<br /> Cider (200 mL) 10–500 2–100<br /> Coffee (200 mL) 350–1750 70–350<br />Anthocyanins (8–10) Aubergine (200 g) 7500 1500<br /> Cyanidin Blackberry (100 g) 1000–4000 100–400<br /> Pelargonidin Black currant (100 g) 1300–4000 130–400<br /> Peonidin Blueberry (100 g) 250–5000 25–500<br /> Delphinidin Black grape (200 g) 300–7500 60–1500<br /> Malvidin Cherry (200 g) 350–4500 70–900<br /> Rhubarb (100 g) 2000 200<br /> Strawberry (200 g) 150–750 30–150<br /> Red wine (100 mL) 200–350 20–35<br /> Plum (200 g) 20–250 4–50<br /> Red cabbage (200 g) 250 50<br />Flavonols (11–18) Yellow onion (100 g) 350–1200 35–120<br /> Quercetin Curly kale (200 g) 300–600 60–120<br /> Kaempferol Leek (200 g) 30–225 6–45<br /> Myricetin Cherry tomato (200 g) 15–200 3–40<br /> Broccoli (200 g) 40–100 8–20<br /> Blueberry (100 g) 30–160 3–16<br /> Black currant (100 g) 30–70 3–7<br /> Apricot (200 g) 25–50 5–10<br /> Apple (200 g) 20–40 4–8<br /> Beans, green or white (200 g) 10–50 2–10<br /> Black grape (200 g) 15–40 3–8<br /> Tomato (200 g) 2–15 0.4–3.0<br /> Black tea infusion (200 mL) 30–45 6–9<br /> Green tea infusion (200 mL) 20–35 4–7<br /> Red wine (100 mL) 2–30 0.2–3<br />Flavones (11–12, 14, 18) Parsley (5 g) 240–1850 1.2–9.2<br /> Apigenin Celery (200 g) 20–140 4–28<br /> Luteolin Capsicum pepper (100 g) 5–10 0.5–1<br />Flavanones (19–21) Orange juice (200 mL) 215–685 40–140<br /> Hesperetin Grapefruit juice (200 mL) 100–650 20–130<br /> Naringenin Lemon juice (200 mL) 50–300 10–60<br /> Eriodictyol <br />Isoflavones (22–25) Soy flour (75 g) 800–1800 60–135<br /> Daidzein Soybeans, boiled (200 g) 200–900 40–180<br /> Genistein Miso (100 g) 250–900 25–90<br /> Glycitein Tofu (100 g) 80–700 8–70<br /> Tempeh (100 g) 430–530 43–53<br /> Soy milk (200 mL) 30–175 6–35<br />Monomeric flavanols (6, 17, 26, 27) Chocolate (50 g) 460–610 23–30<br /> Catechin Beans (200 g) 350–550 70–110<br /> Epicatechin Apricot (200 g) 100–250 20–50<br /> Cherry (200 g) 50–220 10–44<br /> Grape (200 g) 30–175 6–35<br /> Peach (200 g) 50–140 10–28<br /> Blackberry (100 g) 130 13<br /> Apple (200 g) 20–120 4–24<br /> Green tea (200 mL) 100–800 20–160<br /> Black tea (200 mL) 60–500 12–100<br /> Red wine (100 mL) 80–300 8–30<br /> Cider (200 mL) 40 8johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14358032048737340763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-47280977981975148302011-03-01T14:48:55.213-08:002011-03-01T14:48:55.213-08:00jeez i should hope barium is not radioactive. i th...jeez i should hope barium is not radioactive. i think i drank that stuff when i did a CT scan or something. or was it an MRI. I can't remember.Jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03925820413280991430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-25198764933039837132011-03-01T13:00:13.259-08:002011-03-01T13:00:13.259-08:00@Al
Barium is absolutely not radioactive. Flouros...@Al<br /><br />Barium is absolutely not radioactive. Flouroscopy is just a video x-ray and the dose depends on the length of procedure.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-72528170662274530122011-03-01T09:59:17.698-08:002011-03-01T09:59:17.698-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Might-o'chondri-ALhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17572208303795253605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-6947856877627305362011-03-01T08:15:02.066-08:002011-03-01T08:15:02.066-08:00@Al -
How come you don't create your own for...@Al - <br /><br />How come you don't create your own forum? You seem to have so much knowledge about dang near every topic under the sun. I read through your posts and I am just amazed at the complexity of your comments. I consider myself to be at least reasonably intelligent, yet I cannot grasp much of what you put down. And I am beginning to think that maybe you are just a brilliant mind that could be of even greater help if you had your own site that could draw some like minded (BIG minded) folks to your circle. <br /><br />Ever considered the possibilty?Jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03925820413280991430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-53949371913547612082011-02-28T21:14:17.349-08:002011-02-28T21:14:17.349-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Might-o'chondri-ALhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17572208303795253605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-61451617823711552722011-02-28T19:09:29.819-08:002011-02-28T19:09:29.819-08:00@Al
According to CDC, radiation exposure from a x-...@Al<br />According to CDC, radiation exposure from a x-country flight is 0.03mS or 1/3 that of a chest X-ray. Quite different from what you said. Sieverts replace Rem as standard units, 1S=100Rem.Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11490835915837052199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-7517798264635247632011-02-28T11:15:05.355-08:002011-02-28T11:15:05.355-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Might-o'chondri-ALhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17572208303795253605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-43708299912650386222011-02-28T06:03:22.657-08:002011-02-28T06:03:22.657-08:00Dr. Harris - I very much appreciate your putting t...Dr. Harris - I very much appreciate your putting the dental x-rays in perspective. Dentists have thyroid guards; are they for thyroid patients? I tend to avoid the dentist anyway; just don't need to go as often after changing the diet. My main question is about the radiation from an airplane flight. How does that relate to what is being discussed here?waterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14164346917947511229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-29985199529569762322011-02-28T02:28:09.310-08:002011-02-28T02:28:09.310-08:00And if extra virgin olive oil causes hormesis, the...And if extra virgin olive oil causes hormesis, the French are getting a lot of that as well.gunther gathererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15361732213105267048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-14543252005365703322011-02-28T02:19:55.435-08:002011-02-28T02:19:55.435-08:00Morten G., maybe drinking and smoking are hormetic...Morten G., maybe drinking and smoking are hormetic too, at least in moderation. And the French seem to be pretty moderate with both.<br /><br />Don't forget they also ingest lots of bacteria in their wine, vinegar and stinky raw cheeses. Bacteria give off lipopolysaccharides which cause hormesis too, since they stimulate the immune system and other anti-inflammatory pathways.gunther gathererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15361732213105267048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-29391715508880343352011-02-27T18:58:39.234-08:002011-02-27T18:58:39.234-08:00Re homesis and the value of exercise, have you see...Re homesis and the value of exercise, have you seen this NY Times blog about how high levels (400IU/day) of Vitamin E prevent the beneficial effects of exercise on glucose metabolism?<br /><br />http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/06/phys-ed-free-the-free-radicals/<br /><br />The original research is at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2680430/<br /><br />The paper used Vitamin C (1000mg/day) and Vitamin E (400IU/day) together, but 1000mg/day of Vit C is readily achievable from food, so is in the normal range; I think the effects they saw were from the high Vit E levels. Unfortunately, most multi-vitamins contain 400IU of Vitamin E.Tim Lundeenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01121326258299748149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-69584980879338987692011-02-27T18:46:07.436-08:002011-02-27T18:46:07.436-08:00Hi Stephan,
Thanks for all the info, great food fo...Hi Stephan,<br />Thanks for all the info, great food for thought as always. <br /><br />I was wondering, off the top of your head, could you recommend any graduate programs in nutrition that don't follow the mainstream line of thought on this topic? Or perhaps any organizations or universities which do insightful/valuable work? I have a background in molecular biology and am continually fascinated by the developments and insights into this field, but am skeptical about the types of career opportunities available for those wanting to study it. (For example, one could pay 80k and go to Columbia's school of nutrition for a year, and learn a lot about nothing).<br /><br />Thanks for any advice you may have : )microkathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02467908921801467088noreply@blogger.com