tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post8054063351378659501..comments2024-02-25T02:24:14.972-08:00Comments on Whole Health Source: Ischemic Heart Attacks: Disease of CivilizationStephan Guyenethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comBlogger131125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-18530901085694318332010-10-10T17:39:36.556-07:002010-10-10T17:39:36.556-07:00Hi Taw,
I don't find those data in conflict w...Hi Taw,<br /><br />I don't find those data in conflict with my hypothesis at all. By 1961, the diseases of civ were in full swing in Western nations. In Japan, they were still developing. <br /><br />In 1961 Nigeria, the main "vegetable oil" in rural areas was red palm oil, with smaller amounts of peanut. Red palm oil is a traditional healthy oil that has been used in the region for thousands of years. It has a very different fatty acid composition than industrial seed oils. It is well documented throughout Africa that populations transitioning from a rural diet/lifestyle to one including much larger amounts of seed oils, white flour and sugar have higher obesity, hypertension, CHD, gout and many other disorders. If you want more info, I suggest the book "Western diseases: their emergence and prevention", edited by Trowell and Burkitt.<br /><br />I think those data are consistent with the hypothesis that industrial foods including seed oils, white flour and sugar contribute to CHD.<br /><br />You said that poverty and malnutrition prevent heart disease, but I have to disagree. Some of the highest CHD rates in the world are among extremely poor populations such as S India and E Europe. <br /><br />The key factor is not poverty, it's access to industrial foods. If you're so poor you can't afford anything but the food you grow yourself, then yes you will be protected. For example, 70 years ago African-Americans were thought to be genetically resistant to CHD because they had so few heart attacks. Now they have a higher CHD rate than Caucasians, so scientists are wondering why they're genetically susceptible. The thing that changed is they used to be too poor to afford processed food; now a large proportion are still poor but in 2010 processed food is the cheapest thing around.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-84800983659253706752010-10-10T09:58:33.018-07:002010-10-10T09:58:33.018-07:00A better question is "what do we eat/do in th...<i>A better question is "what do we eat/do in the US that traditional Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, Polynesians, Melanesians and Africans don't"? For starters, none of them rely on industrial vegetable oils, sugar and wheat to nearly the same extent as modern America. Their food is generally prepared at home using wholesome ingredients and traditional methods.</i><br /><br />Numbers from <a href="http://t-a-w.blogspot.com/2010/09/neolithic-counter-revolution-in-diet.html" rel="nofollow">FAOSTAT data for 1961 and 2007</a>. First, percent of calories from sugar and vegetable oil.<br /><br />Japan - 15.37% and 27.45%.<br />Nigeria - 20.93% and 19.35%.<br />USA - 28.92% and 36.06%.<br />UK - 23.54% and 23.97%.<br /><br />Sugar, vegetable oil, and wheat:<br /><br />Japan - 25.06% and 40.29%.<br />Nigeria - 21.83% and 24.94%.<br />USA - 46.42% and 52.38%.<br />UK - 45.72% and 45.76%.<br /><br />Data seems to disagree very violently with any simple hypothesis.<br /><br />The big difference in 1961 was mostly poverty and malnutrition, which seem to prevent hearth disease all right, quite reliably.<br /><br />If Japan still has much less heart disease than USA and UK, this falsifies industrial food hypothesis right away.<br /><br />If UK changed at all (and it did very much), this also falsified industrial food hypothesis just as quickly.<br /><br />If US changed at all (and it did), this falsifies hypothesis that wheat is pretty much as bad as vegetable oil and sugar, what you often imply.<br /><br />Nigeria 1961 is mostly palm kernel oil, which I didn't bother to exclude as it was tiny % of global total, like olive oil etc.<br /><br />There are many plausible environmental factors other than food composition - cars, very low activity levels, bisphenol A, use of TV, computers, and artificial light causing disruption of melatonin production and sleep cycle, lower levels of sun exposure, all kinds of low level industrial pollutants etc. - unfortunately I don't think there's any good data source about these, so I won't say anything more.<br /><br />But seriously now - is there any hypothesis about food composition causing obesity, heart problems etc. that cannot be disproved in 5 minutes with FAOSTAT data alone?<br /><br />(if you hate FAOSTAT data access system but want data itself, email me for nice csvs)tawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16972845140253292628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-39824632806067379372009-09-16T09:33:22.302-07:002009-09-16T09:33:22.302-07:00There are still obese people in Africa, even among...There are still obese people in Africa, even among the traditional indigenous, as Gary Taubes documented in his book. But I think it doesn't progress to heart disease, necessarily, because of their lesser access to sugar and vegetable oils. But a starchy diet is "natural" for no human being. It just happens that it doesn't kill us before we reach reproductive age.<br /><br />The Maasai apparently have a high rate of arteriosclerosis as well, but they don't have heart attacks. Similarly, someone did a study after WWII where they compared autopsies of Japanese and Westerners and found that the two groups had equivalent incidence of artery-hardening and yet the Japanese had far less heart disease.<br /><br />I really think it's eventually going to be found that artery-hardening is a natural part of aging for many people, and doesn't contribute to heart attacks. I read an interesting piece by a doctor, in this vein (no pun intended), from the Weston A. Price Foundation site and he thinks it may be another mechanism entirely. He believes the artery-clogging they find in autopsies of heart attack deaths occurs <i>after</i> the heart attack and not before; it may be "inflammatory debris" piled up post-MI. What he thinks is going on is something similar to lactic acid buildup in the muscles after extreme exercise, except you can rest your skeletal muscles and you can't rest your heart. Eventually it seizes up. He thinks capillary death around the heart plays a role. I can't remember if he mentioned endothelium death in the arteries as well, but I've seen that mentioned elsewhere as another contributing factor. High insulin will screw your endothelial layer six ways to Sunday. That could be what's killing the capillaries around the heart, too.<br /><br />Wait, I just found it again.<br /><br />http://westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/heart-attacks.html<br /><br />I'm stunned Dr. Cowan had never heard of digitalis as a treatment for heart disease. I have been interested in herbal medicine for years and have known for almost as long that foxglove was the source of one of the more important cardiac drugs. Has digitalis fallen that far out of favor that MDs are coming out of school now without having heard of it?<br /><br />Digitalis is hard to find without a prescription unless you're willing to raise medicinal foxglove and take your chances with the tea, but it seems cholesterol is a raw material for cardiotonics in the human body. This may explain why statins cause more heart problems in some people.<br /><br />Anyway, hopefully you find the link interesting.Dana Seilhanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11749354913843954242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-30301597616551182002009-08-25T20:07:01.785-07:002009-08-25T20:07:01.785-07:00Anna,
Thanks for all the great info and ideas... ...Anna,<br />Thanks for all the great info and ideas... I see you have a website so I will visit to get more tips!sandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15316942528941597439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-81720581626281632912009-08-25T08:57:42.939-07:002009-08-25T08:57:42.939-07:00Sandra,
Even in the summer I try to keep some sma...Sandra,<br /><br />Even in the summer I try to keep some small containers of bone broth in the freezer. After I roast or grill a chicken or bison/beef with bones I use the slow cooker on the patio or in the garage to keep the aroma and the heat out of the house while the bone broth is simmering away. <br /><br />My son loves chicken soup in any season, even summer. It's a fast meal to make for him. I melt the frozen broth in a small saucepan, toss in a few chunks of carrots, cauliflower, chopped tomatoes, etc. and cook until they are tender, just a few minutes. Then I add a few chunks of leftover chicken, shrimp, or meatballs to heat. In about 10 minutes his lunch is ready. Often I have a diced half avocado in the bowl already to cool off the soup as I ladle it, sort of like tortilla soup without the tortillas.<br /><br />When I make rice for my son (not that often anymore) I cook it with chicken bone broth, not water. The flavor of the rice is enhanced as is boosts the nutrient content.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17033443643442246531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-56842140835431496152009-08-25T08:48:08.385-07:002009-08-25T08:48:08.385-07:00Sandra,
"How do I calculate how much calcium...Sandra,<br /><br />"How do I calculate how much calcium is in a cup of homemade beef stock?"<br /><br />You know, I haven't a clue how to estimate mineral content without obtaining a lab analysis, but I don't sweat it, either. And my broth is different each time I make it anyway. I just try to make sure my family's food is full of a variety of healthy real foods, prepared in a way that makes the most sense (& tastes good). The trend towards boneless meat cooking doesn't make a lot of sense to me anymore.<br /><br />For instance, the other night I made a boneless (chuck cut ) pot roast overnight in the slow cooker, so in the bottom of the crock I placed a small section of oxtail (beef tail-bone, cut into sections). In the morning when the roast was cooked, I removed it to cool off (I planned to reheat it for our supper later). Then I "reduced" by 2/3 the remaining liquid (red wine and a bit of balsamic vinegar) and oxtail section in an open pan on the stove, which became a delicious, rich thick sauce that improved the boneless pot roast immeasurably. <br /><br />Keep in mind, it isn't how much calcium you ingest, it's how much and how well you absorb the calcium (and other minerals), too. Bone broths are purported to be very easy to digest and absorb. Also, calcium absorption appears to be related to having adequate Vitamin D3, too, so also that's a factor to consider. I make sure we are not Vitamin D deficient now.<br /><br />I usually don't supplement calcium, but I do supplement magnesium and some trace minerals. My "gut feeling" is the calcium we get in food is probably fine.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17033443643442246531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-44329669709863708492009-08-24T13:26:19.298-07:002009-08-24T13:26:19.298-07:00Anna,
Thanks for the reminder on bone broths... I ...Anna,<br />Thanks for the reminder on bone broths... I did some awhile ago, but since the warm days of summer I haven't thought about soups. I'm making some now though!<br /><br />It is hard to overcome the years of thinking of dairy as the only source of calcium. With dairy it's also easy to see how much we're getting by reading labels. How do I calculate how much calcium is in a cup of homemade beef stock?sandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15316942528941597439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-80573241515637560302009-08-24T10:46:58.440-07:002009-08-24T10:46:58.440-07:00Just to clarify about dairy and acne, butter doesn...Just to clarify about dairy and acne, butter doesn't do it, and in fact, the more butter I eat, the nicer my skin looks. The same things happens when I take a vitamin K2 supplement (which is rare).Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-81444508503647579862009-08-24T02:00:38.640-07:002009-08-24T02:00:38.640-07:00Many thanks for your thoughts on dairy! It's b...Many thanks for your thoughts on dairy! It's been quite a major source of food for me over the years (originally for cheap protein, now mostly just cheese for calories, non-0-6y protein and K2). <br /><br />For what it's worth I agree with you about the former interpretation of the dairy-correlation being more plausible. That said I'll definitely be getting as much goat/sheep dairy as I can whenever cost isn't an issue! Unfortunately I think that I'm pretty much borderline with dairy tolerance (no lactose, just casein) so it's an open question for me practically as well.David Mosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08508780038542342811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-30947736860970658662009-08-23T12:01:43.618-07:002009-08-23T12:01:43.618-07:00Sandra said "I'm curious to know where fo...Sandra said "I'm curious to know where folks who don't consume much or any dairy get calcium..."<br /><br />Bone broths are a great way to get absorbable calcium. I always add a glug of vinegar or a squeeze of lemon juice to slightly acidify the water.<br /><br />I cook boneless cuts of meat far less often now, generally opting for bone-in when possible. If I am braising a boneless cut of beef or bison, I toss in a small section of oxtail or meaty neck bones to enrich the sauce. The bones add enormous flavor, moisture, lots of nutrients, and also help conduct heat into the meat while cooking. An added bonus is that the bone-in cuts are far cheaper than boneless, too. I no longer see bones as "waste" to be avoided.<br /><br />We don't avoid dairy, though, but our milk "as a beverage" consumption has gone down a great deal this past year (I buy a quart a week and it's raw and whole cow's milk). Most of the milk is drunk by our son, but I do use it whatever isn't consumed as a beverage in cooking or GF baking. The other dairy foods we consume are pasteurized (not ultra-pasteurized) grass-fed butter, ghee, half-and-half, heavy cream; raw milk aged cheeses; chevre; and varying amounts of cottage cheese and yogurt.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17033443643442246531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-63659939740060474752009-08-23T10:35:22.263-07:002009-08-23T10:35:22.263-07:00Just to add to the mix here - I had to eliminate c...Just to add to the mix here - I had to eliminate cow's milk to solve skin and asthma problems (eliminating other things, especially grains and sugar definitely were needed too). Even raw cow's milk was no good. I'm pretty sure all the milk to which I have access is the "bad" kind, containing A1 casein. I can have the fat portion of cow's milk with no problems, so things like heavy cream, butter, cream cheese and mascarpone are fine (raw or pasteurized).<br /><br />I have no problem with raw goat's milk although pasteurized goat's milk causes the skin and asthma problems. Goat's milk contains the "good" casein, A2, but apparently pasteurization ruins even that. <br /><br />As far as milk being insulinptrophic, designed by nature to help the baby animal grow quickly, I definitely notice it impossible to lose any weight even eating very low carb unless I cut way back on the goat's milk. If it truly is the whey portion that causes this, I may try making cheese out of it instead!Sentahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02996306897347782114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-70683813063340158542009-08-23T10:17:48.863-07:002009-08-23T10:17:48.863-07:00Melchior:
"It's been well documented tha...Melchior:<br /><br />"It's been well documented that milk is a potent insulin trigger. The whey fraction is responsible for most of this effect"<br /><br />But how many of the studies used whole milk? Doesn't whole milk have less whey than the same volume of skim? Or could the fat somehow slow down the breakdown of sugars and protein so as to trigger less insulin? <br /><br />Also, if it's the whey, cheese would be better as the whey is removed...also maybe strained yogurt??<br /><br />The acne issue is interesting...My 8 year old does get single pimples on his legs every once in awhile- I've always thought this was odd. He also has some small patches of dermatitis on his scalp that do not go away. He does not care for milk, but loves cheese and yogurt. I have insisted on at least some milk, but I'll experiment w/o it and see what happens. <br /><br />On the other hand,this study implicates meat and NOT dairy... but I do not have a background in science, so maybe it is not a good study:<br /><br />http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=17491696sandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15316942528941597439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-218959111735452422009-08-23T07:46:47.221-07:002009-08-23T07:46:47.221-07:00Sandra,
It's been well documented that milk i...Sandra,<br /><br />It's been well documented that milk is a potent insulin trigger. The whey fraction is responsible for most of this effect. The question is: how bad is this? Milk consumption certainly plays a role in acne, as explained on several places by Loren Cordain (you find most of his research on his website, thepaleodiet.com). Here are some other refs.<br /><br />Hoppe C,Molgaard C,Vaag A,et al.,“High intakes of milk,but not meat,increase s-insulin and insulin resistance in 8-year- <br />old boys”,Eur J Clin Nutr(2005);59(3):pp.393–398.<br /><br />Holt SH,Miller JC,Petocz P,An insulin index of foods:the insulin demand generated by 1000-kJ portions of common foods”, <br />Am J Clin Nutr(1997);66:12”pp.64–76.Melchior Meijerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12416984522705147485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-12302902209683226092009-08-22T23:50:47.374-07:002009-08-22T23:50:47.374-07:00W. Price did report that the Australian Aboriginal...W. Price did report that the Australian Aboriginal population did not have hair loss. Also, most pictures of the African tribes in his book displayed shaved heads! Perhaps at this point, hair is no longer an essential element to human survival. Notice that most Asian and Native Americans races have little to no body hair. Perhaps the fact that hair is not important to human survival has allowed the genetic expression of baldness to flourish because there is no selective pressure against it?Swedehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16310925231429616457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-62605441702519055782009-08-22T18:43:46.702-07:002009-08-22T18:43:46.702-07:00How would dairy cause hair loss though...and would...How would dairy cause hair loss though...and wouldn't baldness be even more common? <br /><br />I looked back at Stephan's charts on food trends and noted that milk consumption has been declining...for now I'm clinging to this in order to avoid associating milk with metabolic disturbances. I also wonder if pastured or raw dairy is different - esp full fat. I found one study that linked milk to elevated plasma insulin, but they used non-fat milk. I doubt any others have used full fat, cream line grass fed milk. <br /><br />The higher quality pasturized milk may not have an effect on acne, but perhaps raw dairy would (less allergenic and more beneficial organisms?). Stephan, have you tested raw dairy and acne? <br /><br />I'm curious to know where folks who don't consume much or any dairy get calcium...sandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15316942528941597439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-2154829834200941142009-08-22T05:38:36.264-07:002009-08-22T05:38:36.264-07:00No Jacob, i ate very "healthy" for more ...No Jacob, i ate very "healthy" for more than four years: mostly organic whole grain bread, whole milk (raw goat milk and fermented in kefir, homemade), butter and cheese (every day), a decent amount of fruit and vegetables (fresh), some nuts here and there and organic meat and eggs. Basically what the WAPF would recommend, but i still had acne during all these years, no adaptation even though my diet didn't change, i read "Nutrition and Physical degeneration" from W. A. Price and thought i was doing the best i could. Couple of months ago i noticed a slightly receding hair line (male pattern baldness) and that of course freaked me out because i'm only 24. So i figured out there must be something terribly wrong with my diet (i dont believe men are supposed to go bald from the age of 24), and I read some stuff here and there and eliminated gluten from my diet (now for 1 month), and i notice an improvement, but i'm still not clear and zits keep coming up (although at a slower rate). I noticed a great improvement in bowel movements: a reduction in quantity (both volume and frequency) and an increase in "quality". So the gluten free diet is a keeper for me. <br />The next thing i will eliminate is dairy because i suspect it to be a cause of both acne and baldness.<br />Now that i'm myself dealing with this problem, i notice it in a lot of other (young) people too. I searched the web for health guru's with hair, but there are not many health guru's with good hair (mercola for example blames it all on the carbs and grains, but the chinese eat a lot of grain (rice, although low in gluten still carbs) and dont go bald as much as we here in the west (btw, there was a study that male pattern baldness increased in japan after WW2, might it be because of the introduction of dairy?), and since mercola is now "grain free" for couple of years i think that he must have regrown some hair if grains were the cause (follicles dont die, i think they go into hibernation mode or something like that). <br />Weston Price himself was bald too (from the picture in his book), as is andrew weil and a lot of other diet preachers, vegetarian or not. Might dairy be the common denominater? I suspect so, but i'm not sure. I'll start dairy-free, gluten-free next week. Hopefully with results after couple of months. Anyway, i know that baldness concerns a lot of men, so i'll surely report it if i've got significant results.<br />Best regards,<br />DavidDavidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01847816023018292177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-37850811605758815712009-08-22T02:32:28.725-07:002009-08-22T02:32:28.725-07:00Have you isolated variables, though? All cheese is...Have you isolated variables, though? All cheese is not the same. Aged/fresh? Pasteurised? Would raw cheese give you acne? What are the ingredients in your cheese - I'm told people are often allergic either to additives, or to the purified enzymes and/or artificial molds used to curdle/culture modern cheese. <br /><br />Another point is that perhaps if you kept eating the cheese, your acne would go away. Your body would adapt to the new nutrients. Might not this be a factor in the health of traditional peoples - that, regardless of whether they ate low or high fat, grains, dairy, whatever, they ate it consistently?jacobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08238339480968010579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-69108813203010619122009-08-21T15:12:49.051-07:002009-08-21T15:12:49.051-07:00David,
Cow's milk dairy gives me acne, there&...David,<br /><br />Cow's milk dairy gives me acne, there's no doubt about it. I've done the experiment roughly 10 times now. If I eat cheese, in the next day or two I'll get a couple of pimples. If I avoid all dairy, I rarely get acne.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-84295502596916835772009-08-21T06:55:21.616-07:002009-08-21T06:55:21.616-07:00I too think that dairy deserves further investigat...I too think that dairy deserves further investigation. There are studies linking dairy to acne <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15692464?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus" rel="nofollow"> click</a>. There is speculation that this may be caused by "bio-active" molecules. Is it possible for these "bio-active" molecules to mess with hormone balances in the human body <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19232475?ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum" rel="nofollow"> click</a>? Not everything looks bad about milk though <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19643770?ordinalpos=10&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum" rel="nofollow">click</a>. This deserves a bit more honest research. It would be pity if milk turns out to be not as good as once thought because it's really a convenient food. And now that i've eliminated gluten (which is obviously an improvement since my acne has been reduced) i need my calories from somewhere (i'm a student on a student's budget ;)). <br />I hope you'll delve into this stephan! You've a great blog, keep up the good work, and thanks for the work already done, it has been appreciated!Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01847816023018292177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-74461220338890882522009-08-19T21:34:38.748-07:002009-08-19T21:34:38.748-07:00"Milk is one of the most insulinotrophic food..."Milk is one of the most insulinotrophic foods there is."<br /><br />So could drinking milk lead to insulin resistence or other diseases that could be related to too much insulin (like cancer)? What about yogurt? <br /><br />I've switched out the whole wheat zucchini muffins for full fat(mostly) grass-fed yogurt at snack time... is this pointless (or worse) if I'm only concerned with insulin?sandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15316942528941597439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-68563679645230860022009-08-19T16:58:07.015-07:002009-08-19T16:58:07.015-07:00Carl,
In an ideal world, there would be no need f...Carl,<br /><br />In an ideal world, there would be no need for omega-3 supplements because we would all be eating wild game and minimal seeds, except perhaps seasonally. The only reason I think omega-3 is helpful is it appears to restore fatty acid balance. If you eat nothing but grass-pastured ruminants and no foods containing vegetable oils, then there's probably no need or advantage to taking extra omega-3. <br /><br />You aren't the first person to remark that they feel worse when they supplement with fish oil. High-dose supplementation is probably harmful in my opinion. I don't know how much you take, but my feeling is 1/2 teaspoon of fish/cod liver oil per day is enough, in the context of a healthy diet low in omega-6. Some people may not even tolerate that much, which is probably a sign to stop taking it.<br /><br />The Masai do have significant atherosclerosis, but only after they start eating processed food, not while their diet is restricted to milk, meat and blood. Even when they adopt a partially modernized diet, they still don't have heart attacks, despite the atherosclerosis. I wrote about the Masai autopsy studies here:<br /><br />http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/06/masai-and-atherosclerosis.htmlStephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-27384810161449470542009-08-19T11:40:51.381-07:002009-08-19T11:40:51.381-07:00@Stephan: re 100 fold differences, I most certainl...@Stephan: re 100 fold differences, I most certainly agree. Just trying to keep the error bars wide open enough.<br /><br />Part of my concern with going too far with the Omega 3 connection is I personally respond poorly to fish oil supplements save perhaps in quite small amounts. And I do experience significant improvements in endurance when I cut back on the saturated fats, especially dairy fats. (Cutting back on the Omega 6 seems to cause no problems, however.)<br /><br />I wonder if the high 3/6 ratio advocated here isn't a sort of medicine for a different problem -- such as K2 deficiency. That is, high 3/6 repeatably slows clotting time, and this is certainly important if the arteries are getting gummed up. But I'd like to stop the gumming in the first place. TQM and all that.<br /><br />Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall that the Masai have significant gumming up of the arteries, but this is offset by alternate paths and the like from exercise. (And lack of MI from good 3/6 ratio, etc.)<br /><br />(This is not to say the 6/3 ratio isn't way too high in the U.S. Only that going for the high 3/6 ratios of some of these outlier groups is perhaps overcompensation, with potential negative side-effects.)Carl M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01278814334603631598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-67198217797026280782009-08-19T10:36:59.238-07:002009-08-19T10:36:59.238-07:00Melchior,
I can't say I find the Sippy diet s...Melchior,<br /><br />I can't say I find the Sippy diet study very concerning regarding milk. There are so many variables, like chronically killing stomach acid. That could cause nutrient deficiencies and intestinal dysbiosis. <br /><br />Several observational trials have found that dairy consumption is associated with lower rates of heart attack and stroke, regardless of fat content. Some of these have been conducted in the UK, where they drink A1 milk. It's just an association, but at the very least it isn't consistent with the idea that dairy is behind CHD.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-68702445705354122532009-08-19T10:31:55.404-07:002009-08-19T10:31:55.404-07:00Carl,
Your point is well taken. Even an age-matc...Carl,<br /><br />Your point is well taken. Even an age-matched comparison is not perfect. <br /><br />However, you would have to invoke a mechanism whereby people become much more susceptible to non-MI death before they have a heart attack. I'm not aware of any evidence that's the case. <br /><br />These types of cross-cultural comparisons aren't good for detecting small differences because there are confounding variables. But when I see differences that are 100-fold or higher, it's going to raise my eyebrows.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-80048708437936169692009-08-19T09:37:42.909-07:002009-08-19T09:37:42.909-07:00@Chandler: Thanks for the link. Those on the veget...@Chandler: Thanks for the link. Those on the vegetable side of the Force are quite strident. We can safely rule out their diet conferring inner tranquility. Chris Masterjohn came to the debate much better prepared.<br /><br />@Stephan: good to know Price was published in refereed journals along with his book. And good points about lifespan. I wish they would come up with a standardized measure of life expectancy which removed infant and child mortality, "adult life expectancy" or some such. It would make for easier comparisons of studies relating to degenerative diseases.<br /><br />That said, shorter life expectancy could hide degenerative disease problems. Infections can cause later heart problems. Those who die of strep in childhood could be those more likely to have heart problems later. Or, possibly more correlated, those with clogged arteries might be more likely to die in battle or fall off the ice floe...In other words, age adjustment helps with the comparisons, but it might not be sufficient -- which is what keeps the debate interesting.Carl M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01278814334603631598noreply@blogger.com