tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post8528954710586985645..comments2024-03-28T11:29:46.845-07:00Comments on Whole Health Source: Margarine and PhytosterolemiaStephan Guyenethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-41420359782289558262009-04-09T07:43:00.000-07:002009-04-09T07:43:00.000-07:00Just because we have mechanisms for removing compo...Just because we have mechanisms for removing compounds from our system doesn't mean that they're bad. We certainly absorb a whole lot of compounds that are bad for us, such as ethylene glycol.Chironauthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00508626850224785470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-64542406207857188952009-04-03T20:51:00.000-07:002009-04-03T20:51:00.000-07:00Rick,You make a good point; it's one I've thought ...Rick,<BR/><BR/>You make a good point; it's one I've thought about as well. I still think excess n-6 is a problem for CHD, and here's why. If you look at the early interventions (pre-1970) where they replaced animal fats with industrial vegetable fats, some of them actually did find that CHD deaths increased dramatically. For example, the Anti-Coronary Club trial (1966) and the Rose et al. trial (1965). <BR/><BR/>Why did that effect disappear in the later trials? In my opinion, it's because the background diet already contained a lot of n-6 in the later trials. The difference in n-6 between pre- and post-diet was not as large as in the earlier studies.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-89519927468696730122009-04-03T00:30:00.000-07:002009-04-03T00:30:00.000-07:00"Decades of controlled diet trials showed tha..."Decades of controlled diet trials showed that replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated vegetable oil lowers cholesterol, lowers LDL, but doesn't touch total mortality or death from cardiovascular disease."<BR/><BR/>"Doesn't touch" presumably means that it doesn't improve things, but also that it doesn't worsen things. Doesn't that imply that butter & margarine are equally good/bad?<BR/><BR/>No that doesn't imply that butter and margarine are equally good/bad.<BR/>It means that polys lower LDL but the effect of lowering LDL does not guarantee that one will not die from cardiovascular disease or something else. A person with lowered LDL is not protected from cardiovascular disease or death from something else.<BR/><BR/>Polys lower LDL but they also oxidise easily and are inflammatory. Remove the polys and you are better off.Suehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03181442844616803097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-32145053331738931562009-04-02T20:31:00.000-07:002009-04-02T20:31:00.000-07:00I agree with the thrust of the article, especially...I agree with the thrust of the article, especially the bit about the precautionary principle, but this bit is interesting:<BR/>"Decades of controlled diet trials showed that replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated vegetable oil lowers cholesterol, lowers LDL, but doesn't touch total mortality or death from cardiovascular disease."<BR/><BR/>"Doesn't touch" presumably means that it doesn't improve things, but also that it doesn't worsen things. Doesn't that imply that butter & margarine are equally good/bad?Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08153163123468799657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-8544071194559777482009-03-30T19:54:00.000-07:002009-03-30T19:54:00.000-07:00Rob,I see that your company sells sterol-enriched ...Rob,<BR/><BR/>I see that your company sells sterol-enriched products. Promoting your product in the comments section of a post like this is... interesting. If plant sterols are so great, why do we have at least two enzymes dedicated to keeping them out of the bloodstream? Our digestive tract soaks up cholesterol like a sponge and rejects plant sterols. Then, if any get into the blood by accident, they are filtered out by the liver and promptly excreted in bile. <BR/><BR/>If plant sterols are so great, why did we evolve to treat them like a toxic substance?Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-40198701083608541702009-03-30T08:07:00.000-07:002009-03-30T08:07:00.000-07:00Who wants to bet that Rob was paid to write that c...Who wants to bet that Rob was paid to write that commente?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17698562397742719005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-35186615179136919982009-03-29T08:10:00.000-07:002009-03-29T08:10:00.000-07:00Plant sterols are a good component of an overall, ...Plant sterols are a good component of an overall, natural cholesterol-managing lifestyle that also includes select soluble fibers, good fats as opposed to bad and a number of other nutrients. Without fortification, most of us get about 400mg per day. Vegetarians probably close to 2x that. Traditional diets probably closer to 1000mg/day. There is an extra-virgin olive oil fortified with additional plant sterols -- which is also high in monounsaturated fats. Product is produced by Kardea Nutrition. Kardea's wellness bars with sterols, fiber from oats and psyllium, and only 150 calories also are available in natural foods stores.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04729738010291624479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-36170376580688634472009-03-21T07:31:00.000-07:002009-03-21T07:31:00.000-07:00Plant sterols deplete carotenoids. Canola oil is ...Plant sterols deplete carotenoids. Canola oil is hepatotoxic. Some good articles about Promise shots and other at Natural Health News blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-18771923359536369122009-03-18T19:44:00.000-07:002009-03-18T19:44:00.000-07:00Aaron,Hmm. I know they used to use rosemary oil a...Aaron,<BR/><BR/>Hmm. I know they used to use rosemary oil as an antioxidant in their CLO, maybe that's what it is. It's discouraging that they wouldn't tell you what kind of essential oil they use.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-6002667902850100122009-03-18T18:15:00.000-07:002009-03-18T18:15:00.000-07:00Stephan-- contacted dave from green pastures and w...Stephan-- contacted dave from green pastures and was told that a few drops of essential oil (some type) were put in every bottle- how that came to be known as "plant antioxidant sterol" i'll never know!<BR/><BR/>Scared me for a sec--- especially since I really value green pastures as a company.<BR/><BR/>fermented cod/skate products and butter oil are really gems- even if you believed nothing else on the WAP site-- those products are the real deal.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14565481105849556142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-35411378744213297512009-03-17T18:33:00.000-07:002009-03-17T18:33:00.000-07:00You're kidding! That's bizarre. I wouldn't worry...You're kidding! That's bizarre. I wouldn't worry about it if the dose is small. Thanks for the heads up.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-812851753262554292009-03-17T15:43:00.000-07:002009-03-17T15:43:00.000-07:00Hey Stephan-- did you ever notice that green pastu...Hey Stephan-- did you ever notice that green pastures adds an "antioxidant Sterol" to their fermented cod liver and skate liver products-- I'm contacting them to see how much they put in per dose!Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14565481105849556142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-89859319104493047652009-03-16T23:02:00.000-07:002009-03-16T23:02:00.000-07:00Dave,Good point! Plant sterols also accumulate in...Dave,<BR/><BR/>Good point! Plant sterols also accumulate in the arteries and are associated with poor cardiovascular outcomes in some but not all studies.<BR/><BR/>Scott,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the article, I'll keep that in mind. Did you notice any changes in how you felt when you began taking iodine?<BR/><BR/>Rick,<BR/><BR/>These aren't all nuts but I think you get my drift. This list is not comprehensive. Pecans, sunflower seeds, peanuts, pine nuts, brazil nuts. Some nuts lower in LA are macadamias, hazelnuts and almonds, in ascending order. Walnuts are a special case because they contain a lot of LA but also omega-3 ALA to balance it. Still probably not a good idea to gorge on them.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-61335624166692598662009-03-16T16:57:00.000-07:002009-03-16T16:57:00.000-07:00>I do stay away from the high-linoleic acid nut...>I do stay away from the high-linoleic acid nuts except on occasion.<BR/><BR/>Which are the high-linoleic acid nuts?Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08153163123468799657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-41492338086192747412009-03-13T09:49:00.000-07:002009-03-13T09:49:00.000-07:00Stephan, here's the most recent article I read...Stephan, here's the most recent article I read on iodine deficiency:<BR/>http://www.vrp.com/articles.aspx?page=LIST&ProdID=2588&zTYPE=2<BR/><BR/>I've read about this in many other places, too, but it would take some work tracking it down. I was personally deficient until I started taking supplements a few years back--and this was while eating a healthy diet--but I do not use salt which is the primary source for iodine for Americans because the soil is so depleted. And, as with vitamin D, the RDA-ish amount we're getting from foods/salt is sadly inadequate.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09941449959893952708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-31523097016255032822009-03-13T07:05:00.000-07:002009-03-13T07:05:00.000-07:00Hmmmm, the symptoms of phytosterolemia sound just ...Hmmmm, the symptoms of phytosterolemia sound just like what happens to bunnies when you feed them lots of cholesterol. Another notch for the hypothesis that animals (including humans) effectively metabolize substances common in their foods, and not so much otherwise.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18290594860469294453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-42545924576397216612009-03-12T20:55:00.000-07:002009-03-12T20:55:00.000-07:00Scott,I'm skeptical that our understanding of nutr...Scott,<BR/><BR/>I'm skeptical that our understanding of nutrition is sufficient to be able to improve on a good diet with supplements. Short-term studies don't say anything about long-term effects. I'm willing to be proven wrong on this, but I haven't been yet. <BR/><BR/>It's easy to see mechanisms and think we can tinker with our health using supplements, but in the end we have only the dimmest understanding of the total long-term effects we're having on our body. It's like introducing new species to an ecosystem to take care of a pest species. Half the time, the new species ends up being a worse pest itself. There's no way to guess the effects these chemicals are going to have on our bodies in the long term because the system is too complex. A safer option is to stay within the body's natural operating parameters as much as possible. <BR/><BR/>I can believe that supplements could be used to treat specific illnesses in a drug-like manner. But improving general health and lifespan... that's a much taller order.<BR/><BR/>What evidence do you have that 95% of Americans are iodine deficient?<BR/><BR/>Sue,<BR/><BR/>I don't know, it would depend on the extract. I don't think a normal amount of sterols is a problem. The amount in Benecol is totally beyond what you can get from foods and probably herbal extracts.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-20609753912420411772009-03-12T15:40:00.000-07:002009-03-12T15:40:00.000-07:00What about herbal liquid extracts? There would be ...What about herbal liquid extracts? There would be quite a bit of sterols in those?Suehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03181442844616803097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-24046785748741723562009-03-12T10:02:00.000-07:002009-03-12T10:02:00.000-07:00if absolute maximum healthy lifespan is your goal,...<I>if absolute maximum healthy lifespan is your goal, you should incorporate tactics beyond diet and exercise</I><BR/><BR/>That makes a lot of sense to me. Going Paleo is the safest route to a healthy and long life but to extend it significantly beyond the normal will require medical intervention. Drugs like aspirin, caffeine, nicotine and resveratrol etc could have their uses. Happy coincidences have occurred in nature where plants have developed chemical defenses against predation by insects that have proved very beneficial for the treatment of humans. With the knowledge we have now it is still a bit of a gamble though. Also surgical intervention. I read somewhere those that survive the longest are the ones who seek medical intervention for health issues like heart problems and simply refuse to give up no matter how old they are.AngloAmerikanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02002362092073890146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-19081411067659105752009-03-12T07:36:00.000-07:002009-03-12T07:36:00.000-07:00>>> Why would you need extra nitric oxide...>>> Why would you need extra nitric oxide if you have good endothelial function to begin with? <<<<BR/><BR/>That's a loaded statement, right?<BR/><BR/>Most of us have not eaten well our entire life, and therefore these polyphenols can be used to improve health.<BR/><BR/>I ate crap for my first 38 years of life, and was developing numerous health problems. While food/diet is the primary source of health for any of us, I very much doubt I'd be as healthy as I am now without the aid of supplementing.<BR/><BR/>Additionally, it's extremely hard to get certain minerals like iodine in sufficient quantities from our food supply, and an estimated 95% of Americans are deficient.<BR/><BR/>Others, like lithium, have profound neurological protective benefits, and should be supplemented to help prevent age-relative cognitive decline.<BR/><BR/>My main message is that if absolute maximum healthy lifespan is your goal, you should incorporate tactics beyond diet and exercise, including episodic fasting or CR, supplements, and hormone supplements (beyond the age of 40).<BR/><BR/>No question that food/diet imparts the greatest benefit. But why leave incremental improved health on the table?Scott Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05566257717588564927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-64936946889807992009-03-11T23:18:00.000-07:002009-03-11T23:18:00.000-07:00JC,I took a look at the study. I think it showed ...JC,<BR/><BR/>I took a look at the study. I think it showed convincingly that feeding people massive doses of sterols for one year doesn't cause any gross abnormalities. <BR/><BR/>But their plasma sterol concentration was twice the normal value. What would that do over 10 years? People with phytosterolemia don't get heart attacks when they're one year old, it takes decades to develop. But they still end up getting them much earlier than the average person. Of course, they have sterol levels higher than the people in that study. I'm not saying it proves anything, but it's cause for skepticism, particularly in light of the fact that sterols haven't been shown to reduce heart attack incidence.<BR/><BR/>Rebecca,<BR/><BR/>I can't say for sure which diet is worse, but I would definitely guess the fast food. I looked into Promise and it doesn't contain hydrogenated oils (although canola oil does contain a bit of tans fat created during the refining process). So that's at least one point in its favor. <BR/><BR/>But it is made with soybean oil, which is one of the worst oils for health. She'd be better off with butter. <BR/><BR/>Scott,<BR/><BR/>I'm open to the possibility that certain polyphenols could have benefits outside of their antioxidant role. But they're basically acting like drugs at that point, influencing signaling cascades and enzyme activity. <BR/><BR/>Many healthy traditional cultures eat very little of the plant polyphenols that are so prized by modern nutrition research, which is the main reason I'm skeptical that they play a major role. Why would you need extra nitric oxide if you have good endothelial function to begin with?Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-13453350656844017462009-03-11T17:54:00.000-07:002009-03-11T17:54:00.000-07:00>>> I'm personally very skeptical of ...>>> I'm personally very skeptical of the benefits of plant antioxidants other than the essential ones (A, C, E) and a few others (CoQ10 etc.). Polyphenols (tea, veggies, berries) for example don't contribute significantly to serum antioxidant status. <<<<BR/><BR/>I've been saying this for years, yet I take a many different types of polyphenols from the plant kingdom, including polyphenols from blueberry, tea, grapes, pomegranate, tumeric, cocoa, pine bark, and several others.<BR/><BR/>I do NOT take them for any potential antioxidant benefit, though. Instead, they all have special benefits, such as triggering genes in heathy ways (just as vitamin D does), or creating nitric oxide within the arteries, allowing them to relax better.<BR/><BR/>I suspect there's a whole world of benefits you've yet to tap into because you're focused so much on a natural, paleo diet--but there are increased health benefits to be had outside this dietary circle.Scott Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05566257717588564927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-81823639395842403962009-03-11T15:45:00.000-07:002009-03-11T15:45:00.000-07:00Rebecca, just tell your mom to eat veggies and fis...Rebecca, just tell your mom to eat veggies and fish with a little butter!<BR/><BR/>soda, fries, are always going to be toxic!<BR/><BR/>the double cheeseburger isn't that bad if it's grass fed beef (try to remove the cheese!). NO FIXINGS except for spices and or mustard.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14565481105849556142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-62903050700393870422009-03-11T14:41:00.000-07:002009-03-11T14:41:00.000-07:00I have a question... my mom had CABGX4 and I am te...I have a question... my mom had CABGX4 and I am telling her to use Promise (formerly take control). <BR/><BR/>Her usual diet before the CABG was fast food several times a day, very low fiber, and rarely any fruits and veg. Lots of sugar, processed flour etc. <BR/><BR/>My point is this. If she is happy now eating baked fish with a little Promise and broccoli also with a little Promise, isn't this a much healthier diet than previously fast food and soda? I have a hard time believing that she is CLOSER to the grave with this eating change. <BR/><BR/>I think it is hard to be "perfect" even if margarine is "bad" and asking people for perfect is irresponsible. <BR/><BR/>I'd love to understand why a new diet of baked fish and vegetables is more deadly than a double cheeseburger fries and soda.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your time!<BR/>RebeccaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-62180043203940190492009-03-11T14:29:00.000-07:002009-03-11T14:29:00.000-07:00http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/pubmed/12771969?ord...http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/pubmed/12771969?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed<BR/><BR/>Comments?JChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04691207193166874916noreply@blogger.com