tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post919797951792728828..comments2024-03-28T11:29:46.845-07:00Comments on Whole Health Source: Beans, Lentils, and the Paleo DietStephan Guyenethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-41756732343322326292016-09-25T08:37:24.914-07:002016-09-25T08:37:24.914-07:00Interesting points. I never post on these things b...Interesting points. I never post on these things but here I feel compelled to.<br />"The high calorie and protein content of legume seeds would have made them prime targets for exploitation by ancestral humans after the development of cooking."<br />Paleo-approved foods (meat, vegetables, fruits, nuts, seeds) were consumed by our ancestors for millions of years, long before the advent of cooking (or homo-sapiens).<br />Furthermore, you mention various cultures who have eaten legumes with no mention of when they started eating them: Less than 10,000 years ago, I'll wager, which is far too recently.<br />'Ancestral' is not the same as 'Paleolithic'. Our ancestors and current hunter-gatherer societies made, and make, mistakes just like we do.Daveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11140104123621929739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-18413878898636226312014-09-05T12:23:25.110-07:002014-09-05T12:23:25.110-07:00I adopted paleo/perfect health diet 4 years ago bu...I adopted paleo/perfect health diet 4 years ago but recently developed prostate problems which many sources attribute to fat and animal protein. So I think of a change.StanMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16872507920980845281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-9574781230443266202014-07-17T12:29:45.178-07:002014-07-17T12:29:45.178-07:00The biggest problem I have with the Paleo diet is ...The biggest problem I have with the Paleo diet is that it assumes that just because most people seem to have been eating a particular diet during a narrow and distant (and therefore incredibly difficult to study accurately) period of time, that's the healthiest way for everyone to eat. That seems quite illogical. During certain times in our history, humans have eaten diets that consist almost entirely of potatoes or cow blood mixed with milk. Whole populations survived in these ways. That doesn't mean it's the healthiest diet, even if it works for some populations. It also takes a bizarre approach to phytotoxins, so that lectins (which are easily destroyed with a bit of heat) are the devil, but oxalates (which cause kidney stones and, if I remember correctly, are also easily destroyed with heat) are totally fine, and same with the numerous bacteria and toxins found on all sorts of meats and "paleo-approved" vegetables. So bizarre. <br /><br />Different people have different tolerances for fermentable fiber and various chemicals in plants - some that are acknowledge phytotoxins, some that are beneficial or at the very least neutral to many other people. That doesn't mean that the plant is "bad," only that it's bad for YOU. There's such a beautiful, stunning variation in the digestive abilities of our species (somewhat genetic, somewhat environmental, like all things). Let's stop making wholly unscientific, dogmatic diet choices and be a little more rational.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-27212747967353832792014-03-11T03:17:11.037-07:002014-03-11T03:17:11.037-07:00In a distant future I hope one day an anthropologi...In a distant future I hope one day an anthropologist will find my fossilized kitchen and conclude the healthiest natural human diet is Poptarts and Monster Munch.Stephen Codahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06598956230027288408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-81661480153045884592014-03-04T14:22:44.421-08:002014-03-04T14:22:44.421-08:00Thank you for this article. You hit on the head my...Thank you for this article. You hit on the head my thoughts exactly regarding beans, legumes and peanuts. My big disklike of Paleo from the get-go has been the restriction of these super healthy foods. I realize for health reasons, some individuals may choose to not eat them and that is fine.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00347044827119865163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-89427558657023842132014-02-27T15:40:26.571-08:002014-02-27T15:40:26.571-08:00Thank you for an informative site Stephan. A few p...Thank you for an informative site Stephan. A few people have asked, but I have not seen an answer, are some canned beans and lentils OK to eat given they have been cooked?<br />I have used canned beans for years, particularly white beans and have not had a problem. I have now stopped using them and adopted a 90/10 Paleo approach to my diet and I am finding I am having digestive issues....go figure!<br />My question does not take into account the BPA issues with canned food just the suitability of the beans as a regular addition to my diet.Monday's Childhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08943680142179972107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-60166880646815362152014-02-04T13:50:10.396-08:002014-02-04T13:50:10.396-08:00Thank you for this informative article! I agree th...Thank you for this informative article! I agree that legumes are nutritious (and delicious) and I see no compelling scientific evidence that they should be eliminated from the human diet.Doctorfoodlovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00014120753188574199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-81390595724929258242014-01-21T07:14:12.379-08:002014-01-21T07:14:12.379-08:00I know some people who have problems with beans bu...I know some people who have problems with beans but is not me I don`t have problem with anythingAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03200456238735693307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-59283406380981469422014-01-09T03:30:07.387-08:002014-01-09T03:30:07.387-08:00@ Joshua Tenner
Came across this article on the l...@ Joshua Tenner<br /><br />Came across this article on the lectin and the autoimmune response:<br /><br />http://institutefornaturalhealing.com/2009/07/lectins-a-little-known-trouble-maker/<br /><br />I also just finished reading Why Do I Still Have Thyroid Symptoms? When My Lab Tests Are Normal by Datis Kharrazian and my favorite, Hashimoto's Thyroiditis: Lifestyle Interventions for Finding and Treating the Root Cause by Izabella Wentz, which explains the autoimmune response to gluten in particular, and steps to take to improve your overall health.ablochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18209083351001426024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-92003059919920604232013-12-29T18:51:29.553-08:002013-12-29T18:51:29.553-08:00Hi Marcus,
I don't seen any evidence in your ...Hi Marcus,<br /><br />I don't seen any evidence in your references that fully cooked whole beans have a negative impact on the health of animals or humans. There are many human cultures that eat legumes daily and don't seem to suffer from it.<br /><br />The main toxic lectin in beans that receives a lot of attention is red kidney bean phytohemagglutinin. This lectin is indeed very toxic but it's heat labile. Fully cooked red kidney beans contain very little of it and I'm not aware of any evidence that cooked red kidney beans have any harmful effects in animals or humans. Most grain and legume lectins are heat labile in fact. If you cook the beans, the lectins are denatured. I don't eat chicken raw because of salmonella and I don't eat red kidney beans raw because of lectins (not to mention the fact that they would be hard to eat). Many foods require cooking to be safe.<br /><br />Some people do have problems with the fermentable fiber content of beans. This and other FODMAPs can exacerbate IBS for example. But the rest of us can eat beans, stone fruit, onions and other FODMAP-rich foods safely.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-87804149251100299692013-12-29T18:14:31.008-08:002013-12-29T18:14:31.008-08:00I have to emphatically disagree with this post. Le...I have to emphatically disagree with this post. Legume are loaded with antinutrients just like grains and studies clearly show that they upset digestion - <br /><br />1] Greer F, Pusztai A. Toxicity of kidney bean (Phaseolus vulgaris) in rats: changes in intestinal permeability. Digestion 1985;32(1):42–6, http://pmid.us/4018443.<br /><br />[2] Kordás K et al. Phytohaemagglutinin inhibits gastric acid but not pepsin secretion in conscious rats. Journal of Physiology—Paris 2001 Jan–Dec;95(1–6):309–14, http://pmid.us/11595455.<br /><br />[3] Pusztai A et al. Kidney bean lectin–induced Escherichia coli overgrowth in the small intestine is blocked by GNA, a mannose-specific lectin. Journal of Applied Bacteriology 1993 Oct;75(4):360–8, http://pmid.us/8226393.<br /><br />[4] Prykhod’ko O et al. Precocious gut maturation and immune cell expansion by single dose feeding the lectin phytohaemagglutinin to suckling rats. British Journal of Nutrition 2009 Mar;101(5):735–42, http://pmid.us/18644165.<br /><br />[5] Pusztai A et al. Inhibition of starch digestion by alpha-amylase inhibitor reduces the efficiency of utilization of dietary proteins and lipids and retards the growth of rats. Journal of Nutrition 1995 Jun;125(6):1554–62, http://pmid.us/7782910.<br /><br />[6] Ibid.<br /><br />[7] Pusztai A et al. Novel dietary strategy for overcoming the antinutritional effects of soyabean whey of high agglutinin content. Br Journal of Nutrition 1997 Jun;77(6):933–45, http://pmid.us/9227190.<br /><br />[8] Purhonen AK et al. Duodenal phytohaemagglutinin (red kidney bean lectin) stimulates gallbladder contraction in humans. Acta Physiologica 2008 Jul;193(3):241–7, http://pmid.us/18248661.<br /><br />[9] Sitosterolemia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitosterolemia. Guyenet S. Margarine and phytosterolemia, March 9, 2009, http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/03/margarine-and-phytosterolemia.html.<br /><br />[10] Freed DL. Do dietary lectins cause disease? BMJ 1999 Apr 17;318(7190):1023–4, http://pmid.us/10205084.<br /><br />[11] Brown DL. Canavanine-induced longevity in mice may require diets with greater than 15.7% protein. Nutrition & Metabolism 2005 Feb 25;2(1):7, http://pmid.us/15733319/. Hat tip to J. Stanton: Anti-nutritionism, L-canavanine, and the limitations of N=1 Self-experimentation, www.gnolls.org/2982/anti-nutritionism-l-canavanine-and-the-limitations-of-n1-self-experimentation/.<br /><br />[12] Alcocer-Varela J et al. Effects of L-canavanine on T cells may explain the induction of systemic lupus erythematosus by alfalfa. Arthritis & Rheumatism 1985 Jan;28(1):52–7, http://pmid.us/3155617. Montanaro A, Bardana EJ Jr. Dietary amino acid-induced systemic lupus erythematosus. Rheumatic Disease Clinics of North America 1991 May;17(2):323–32, http://pmid.us/1862241. Akaogi J et al. Role of non-protein amino acid L-canavanine in autoimmunity. Autoimmunity Reviews 2006 Jul;5(6):429–35, http://pmid.us/16890899. Hat tip to J. Stanton: Anti-nutritionism, L-canavanine, and the limitations of N=1 Self-experimentation, www.gnolls.org/2982/anti-nutritionism-l-canavanine-and-the-limitations-of-n1-self-experimentation/.<br /><br />[13] Haeney MR et al. Soya protein antibodies in man: their occurrence and possible relevance in coeliac disease. Journal of Clinical Pathology 1982 Mar;35(3):319–22, http://pmid.us/7040491.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00384520262036073730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-12297872664005773152013-12-09T07:21:15.267-08:002013-12-09T07:21:15.267-08:00Colpo's site is up again. You can get 'He...Colpo's site is up again. You can get 'Healthy Whole Grains?' from 180degreehealth, but you can't get the comments. I wrote some of them myself. I think I'd want to get rid of them if I were Colpo.Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-69415913934457957712013-12-08T20:28:07.419-08:002013-12-08T20:28:07.419-08:00Great stuff, everyone -
Here's a short 3 min ...Great stuff, everyone -<br /><br />Here's a short 3 min video (on legumes, phytates, and osteoporosis) that I would love to hear some analysis of by someone smarter than I am: <br /><br />http://nutritionfacts.org/video/phytates-for-the-prevention-of-osteoporosis/<br /><br />Stephan, thanks again for providing a space for ideation and dialogue. Great stuff.<br /> Matthew Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11149827843398421251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-66694079809920025742013-12-08T03:56:55.229-08:002013-12-08T03:56:55.229-08:00@Razwell
I suppose you mean Colpo. I think you...@Razwell<br />I suppose you mean Colpo. I think you're being a bit hard on him, and I'm pretty shocked that his career has now been destroyed on account of a few articles that people could anyway have judged for themselves. I think he believed what he wrote, and he certainly put in a lot of time and effort. In my opinion he was wrong about whole grains, but who cares?Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-84785002893244090422013-12-07T11:33:31.557-08:002013-12-07T11:33:31.557-08:00This is an excellent blog.
Not all beans are same...This is an excellent blog. <br />Not all beans are same (evil). I personally don't mind eating very young, green peas and fava beans, even raw. Also, well soaked (12 hours) and cooked ( 1,5 hours in pressure cooker) chickpeas are something I digest very easily. White beans is like terrorist attack in my stomach, no matter how well soaked and cooked. Lentils... hmm, better not! I guess, everybody has to see for himself. If it's hard on your stomach, you probably shouldn't eat it.Nikolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05441431775671966850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-67771981874243709142013-12-06T08:24:19.319-08:002013-12-06T08:24:19.319-08:00Hi Stephan,
I just wanted to make a fast comment ...Hi Stephan,<br /><br />I just wanted to make a fast comment to the public:<br /><br />I want to publicly note that Stephan Guyenet is a genuine scientist in the category of people such as Carl Sagan, Phil Plait, Neil deGrasse Tyson,dr. Jeffery Friedman and his lab team etc. These indivduals are all scientists advancing human knowledge ( some deceased).<br /><br />Most of Blogsphere, however, are "arm chair net surfers." They are not advancing anything- just debating about who is the top ( false) authority. There are no meaningful conversations going on- just sales and promotion...<br /><br /><br />Stephan's Blog is the only blog I read anymore.It is the one of the only truly scientific source of infomration among most of the Blogosphere who are layman.<br /><br />I will not mention any names, but recently a well known blogger <br />(actually- a scammer) was busted misrepresenting scientific research with phony references. Being exposed and publicly disgraced, this person's blog is no longer up thanks to me. I am greateful my highly scientifically literate friend, Urgelt of YouTube, warned me years back about this blogger's scam.<br /><br />We need to stop letting these self- serving fraudster salesmen blogegrs interpret science for us, people. They are shady and full of absolute certitude and never ever admit to unknowns or uncertainties. The truth is we are all groping in the dark somewhat and taking risks with our dietary decisions. Too little is yet known.<br /><br />Scientists are still unravelimng how cells work and how nutrients affect them. Gut microflora appears to be extremely important for general health. We need more work on this. <br /><br />The public needs to go to the PRIMARY sources - the actual research scientists themselves and their studies. Many of the well known gurus' claims are easily debunked by searching PubMed. They do not count on you doing this, though.<br /><br />Thankfully, Stephan is a real scientist who fills the public in on what is going on. He admits to uncertainty and unknowns and even the rare occasion when he has been wrong- as he studies an uncertain subject . ( Even Richard Feynman got stuff incorrect sometimes). This is admireable. Both Urgelt and myself respect Stephan. And Urgelt, being highly scientifically literate does not repect too many bloggers.<br /><br />Thanks, Stephan, for all of your honest work. :)<br /><br />Wishing you the best !<br /><br />Take care,<br />RazAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-85734901213623256052013-12-05T12:48:06.129-08:002013-12-05T12:48:06.129-08:00Peanuts are atherogenic i.e. they fur up your arte...Peanuts are atherogenic i.e. they fur up your arteries according to animal studies cited by Paul Jaminet on his perfect health diet blog in about September 2013. <br /><br />I had been happily eating peanut butter (roasted nuts, added salt only) until then. I'd either forgotten or never known about such studies.<br /><br />I've eaten other beans for 40 years with no apparent ill effects.Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06472119771650643883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-26822315286102111582013-12-05T12:17:41.080-08:002013-12-05T12:17:41.080-08:00Thanks for this article Stephan. I have a question...Thanks for this article Stephan. I have a question about B vitamins in beans/lentils, particularly folate. Do they exist in the cooked product or no? I can't find an answer to this anywhere online. I know they are considered a great B source, but then everything I see about B vitamins says they are destroyed by cooking. I am very curious if a pregnant lady who does not want to take vitamins will be getting adequate folate from lentils and cooked liver.<br />Thanks a million!Hannahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12533303255717564928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-12374424251502259602013-12-03T18:43:57.468-08:002013-12-03T18:43:57.468-08:00I'm curious about how beans and lentils are us...I'm curious about how beans and lentils are usually prepared. <br /><br />When people talk about a traditional diet and sprouted grains, it is pretty obvious that most grain products are not prepared that way and you can find a small amount of products that make a big deal about being a sprouted alternative.<br /><br />Beans, on the other hand, seem to be rock hard when purchased and the basic instructions say to soak them. So when one gets beans in a can or at restaurant or wherever, are they not still being soaked somehow?<br /><br />I eat in a paleo-influenced way, not religious about it but I certainly eat way less grains or beans than I did a couple of years ago. I have no noticable stomach issues eating them but I don't like to use that as my only metric. I could drop Long John Silvers fried fish on a deep dish pizza and sleep like a baby but I'm pretty sure that's not a healthy diet.John Nicholashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04262602623563926143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-34756036038966368722013-12-02T05:41:41.682-08:002013-12-02T05:41:41.682-08:00Hi Josephus
Do you mean, what would it take to pro...Hi Josephus<br />Do you mean, what would it take to prove whole grains are good for you? This is a problem, because to me it's already been proved, but to many people the opposite has been proved. I don't think there's any way round this, because the literature is now so enormous that nobody can read it all. <br /><br />Anthony Colpo tried, and had a very long two-part article entitled 'Healthy Whole Grains?' which I can't find now. It was based on an email conversation I had with him a few years ago which he published under the heading 'The Whole Grain Scam'. I can't find that either, and I can't even find his site any more.Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-89388697395767583072013-12-01T12:05:17.417-08:002013-12-01T12:05:17.417-08:00Jane,
1) What would it take to falsify your hypot...Jane,<br /><br />1) What would it take to falsify your hypotheses?<br /><br />2) If (1) has an answer, is such research within the realm of practical possibility?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16537596833313626174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-76537030755826431712013-12-01T03:55:01.493-08:002013-12-01T03:55:01.493-08:00@George Henderson
The problem with a study like th...@George Henderson<br />The problem with a study like that is that unless you lock people up, you can never be sure they aren't eating some refined grains. If you lock them up, it will cost you a fortune unless it's very short term, in which case their gut bacteria may not have time to adjust.<br /><br />And even with a long term lock up study, you still have the problem that the immune system of some subjects may have been permanently damaged by refined grains, in such a way that they cannot tolerate any grains.Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-88735164247761791222013-11-29T18:08:43.408-08:002013-11-29T18:08:43.408-08:00Seems to be a whole lot of discussion about PROCES...Seems to be a whole lot of discussion about PROCESSING food here. Try eating your beans raw, see how much you fart, then decide LOLJ.R. Lagonihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00618689294523067583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-13610046236819006012013-11-29T15:21:17.582-08:002013-11-29T15:21:17.582-08:00Legumes need to be soaked for 12-24 hours prior to...Legumes need to be soaked for 12-24 hours prior to cooking because that's what activates the sprouting process. Soaking after cooking does not reduce phytic acid. Canned beans are notoriously indigestible for those who suffer from intestinal problems.Violahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00851348360612771227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-90924966873466715692013-11-29T14:23:42.323-08:002013-11-29T14:23:42.323-08:00Chickpeas have the advantage of visually producing...Chickpeas have the advantage of visually producing a spear (shoot) after about two days of soaking at room temperature. At that point not only phytates are gone (mostly), you have active enzymes such as the low numbered B vitamins being at their peak, busily turning carbohydrates into soft fiber. Traditional preparations involve stewing with tomatoes, whose acidity further counteracts the effects of phytates. Still, I find it easier to digest all manners of roots and tubers, rather than neolithic foods.glibhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17667027419577956753noreply@blogger.com