tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post4938618855215470306..comments2024-03-27T23:47:41.656-07:00Comments on Whole Health Source: The Twinkie Diet for Fat LossStephan Guyenethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comBlogger82125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-76808790191360903122013-01-28T04:44:48.381-08:002013-01-28T04:44:48.381-08:00Great post.
Reminds me of the guy that ate a Big ...Great post.<br /><br />Reminds me of the guy that ate a Big Mac every day for 40 years and counting. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Gorske)<br /><br />More interestingly - a famous figure who eats a "child-like" diet of Cheeseburger and Cherry Soda constantly is Warren Buffet. Maybe not lean but does not look obese by any standard. <br /><br />The Buffet example, anecdotally, fits into Food Reward - Buffet is well known, by his own account, and by behavioural and financial track record, to not be susceptible to the 'normal' addictive/compusive/gambling behaviour as the 99.999% of other investors.. Hence his "edge" in investing and his fortune. It could be that this same psychological/genetic predisposition is what allows him to consume Rewarding food, but yet not get carried away with it. <br /><br /> <br /> <br /><br />Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01304674361653713730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-6529371294299488562012-12-03T20:43:07.960-08:002012-12-03T20:43:07.960-08:00I really appreciate your effort, looking forward f...I really appreciate your effort, looking forward for more exciting stuff related to <a href="http://worldofdiets.info" rel="nofollow">diets</a>.Sarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18089779305724155672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-11565238978645340652011-01-18T18:46:32.870-08:002011-01-18T18:46:32.870-08:00Very nice post.
I been on keto for a while. It ki...Very nice post.<br /><br />I been on keto for a while. It kicks ass.Lose Fat Rapidlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09569595701263692916noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-76274882629087917752010-12-15T20:24:35.526-08:002010-12-15T20:24:35.526-08:00Hi Jacob,
Yes, that doesn't surprise me. Whe...Hi Jacob,<br /><br />Yes, that doesn't surprise me. When you put a population on a poor diet, only some of them will develop obesity, some will develop hypertension, some will develop diabetes. Most will get sick in some way, but not all. There's definitely a component of individual susceptibility.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-22149481111007919402010-12-12T18:37:46.271-08:002010-12-12T18:37:46.271-08:00Really good article overall.
Important points, wel...Really good article overall.<br />Important points, well simplified.<br /><br />One problem though:<br />http://www.themedguru.com/20101107/newsfeature/overweight-kids-eat-healthy-food-study-86141584.html<br /><br />Healthy bodyfat kids eat at least as much junk food as overweight kids, and overweight kids eat at least as much vegetables, (at least in the sample this study looked at)<br /><br />So, not only is it more complicated than just "calories in / calories out", it is also more complicated than "processed foods = fat, whole foods = healthy.Bakarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04002145755975841287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-86018904977323567562010-11-27T23:12:31.780-08:002010-11-27T23:12:31.780-08:00@stephan, @blogblgo, @SD Scientist:
Stephan, i re...@stephan, @blogblgo, @SD Scientist: <br />Stephan, i read your blog regularly and have to say how much I appreciate the quality of the posts - very well written, well researched and well nuanced. I really appreciate how you make an effort not to overstate your case, and to consistently underline the limitations of the data. I also appreciate your effort in responding to comments. <br />@blogblog, @SD Scientist - I really appreciate some of your points, and i think healthy scepticism and dialogue are very well appreciated. On the other hand, both of you have been using an unjustifiably and unnecessary aggressive tone, and casting aspersions rather than contributing ideas. Let's stick to constructive dialogue. Whether or not Lindeberg has been cited, what is your beef with his METHODS AND CONCLUSIONS?Jeff_in_Montrealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01149283194981831974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-76184334176795368622010-11-22T10:21:10.720-08:002010-11-22T10:21:10.720-08:00Great post, thanks for the information! I serious...Great post, thanks for the information! I seriously doubt that this experiment would work for everyone and I don't recommend trying. Instead, I think the diet worked because he was burning more calories than he was consuming in a day. He probably kept a <a href="http://www.fitclick.com/calorie_counter" rel="nofollow">food journal</a> to record how many calories he had eaten that day, to see how long he needed to exercise.owenmungerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12234745933762609673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-90243997088053289942010-11-20T19:40:22.915-08:002010-11-20T19:40:22.915-08:00Fantastic post, and issues well dealt with.
The q...Fantastic post, and issues well dealt with.<br /><br />The question I always return to, is that of why the incidence of obesity has increased so greatly in the last 30 years ?<br /><br />Have our hypothalmuses changed ? Obviously not. In the unlikely event that natural selection came into play, we would be getting slimmer.<br /><br />My view is that marketing has become expert in overriding our instincts, along with social attitudes and the low cost of food. <br /><br />These things all have to do with conscious efforts of will. Nobody wants to admit to being weak-willed, so have come up with any number of excuses, such as the calorific content of food, metabolism etc. The good professor has pretty conclusively removed these excuses.<br /><br />"Do you want to go large on that ?"Catmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02716332787160129047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-19245917190699624822010-11-18T08:27:45.405-08:002010-11-18T08:27:45.405-08:00Twinkie Dude has his data posted on his Facebook p...Twinkie Dude has his data posted on his Facebook page. I looked at his body composition results. He did lose lean mass during the two and a half months of his diet. He had a fat loss of 8 percent in the same time period--and I looked up the relevant bodyfat percentage charts, and he's just a hair this side of obese going by bodyfat percentage, age, activity level and gender.<br /><br />His labs are also just a little bit off. HDL's in normal range but on the low end. Total cholesterol under 200 which only delights a conventional physician, and only if he's turned off his brain and not read any recent non-industry-funded research on the subject. Fasting glucose was 74, kind of low. No number for triglycerides. It would have been useful for him to record a few postprandial sugars and maybe his HgA1C but he did neither.<br /><br />On top of that he supplemented with a multivitamin and protein shakes. And he ate vegetables.<br /><br />The mainstream are all going "wow, it IS the calories" but not looking at his overall health picture. I thought the goal in weight loss was <i>fat</i> loss, not losing bone and muscle as well. I wish he'd done a bone density scan before and after, then we'd really have reason to be scared.Dana Seilhanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11749354913843954242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-80646711084215864702010-11-18T05:58:54.717-08:002010-11-18T05:58:54.717-08:00thanx for this valuable info, really help me on my...thanx for this valuable info, really help me on my new blog..thanx again..miahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04390213630170746713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-13643391413652642472010-11-17T21:38:33.315-08:002010-11-17T21:38:33.315-08:00Thanks for the post. It can be really hard puttin...Thanks for the post. It can be really hard putting together an <br /><a href="http://hughesestatesales.com/" rel="nofollow">Estate Auction</a> <br />So make sure you work with professionals.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-80546211530750115412010-11-17T20:39:48.980-08:002010-11-17T20:39:48.980-08:00Hi blogblog,
You are way off base. Being in a &q...Hi blogblog,<br /><br />You are way off base. Being in a "small self-referencing mutual admiration club" does not get you published in good peer-reviewed journals. Would you mind explaining how he got his papers published in the Journal of Internal Medicine and the journal Metabolism if his data are as poor as you claim and his peers don't respect him? Have you actually read his papers or are you talking out of thin air?<br /><br />The numbers of citations you listed for his papers are way low; have a look on Google scholar. As I said, his first paper has been cited 67 times. Sorry but that qualifies as well cited.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-19673321940382335652010-11-17T20:00:59.696-08:002010-11-17T20:00:59.696-08:00"Now you're just making things up. Lindeb..."Now you're just making things up. Lindeberg published most of his Kitava papers in respected peer-reviewed journals such as the Journal of Internal Medicine and the journal Metabolism. You can bet his methods were carefully scrutinized.<br /><br />His first paper has been cited 67 times in the scientific literature."<br /><br />I'm not denying that some of Lindebergs papers have received many citations. However his actual published studies of Kitivans have largely been ignored.<br /><br />I would go so far as to suggest that Lindeberg and Cordain appear to members of a small self-referencing mutual admiration club.<br /><br />According to Medline<br /><br />1)<br />Scand J Clin Lab Invest. 2003;63(3):175-80.<br />Determinants of serum triglycerides and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol in traditional Trobriand Islanders: the Kitava Study.<br /><br />Lindeberg S, Ahrén B, Nilsson A, Cordain L, Nilsson-Ehle P, Vessby B.<br /><br /><b>1 citation</b><br /><br /><br />2) J Intern Med. 2001 Jun;249(6):553-8.<br />Large differences in serum leptin levels between nonwesternized and westernized populations: the Kitava study.<br /><br />Lindeberg S, Söderberg S, Ahrén B, Olsson T.<br /><br /><b>2 citations</b><br /><br /><br />3) J Intern Med. 2004 Mar;255(3):373-8.<br />Serum uric acid in traditional Pacific Islanders and in Swedes.<br /><br />Lindeberg S, Cordain L, Råstam L, Ahrén B.<br /><br /><b>2 citations</b><br /><br /><br />J Intern Med. 1994 Sep;236(3):331-40.<br />Cardiovascular risk factors in a Melanesian population apparently free from stroke and ischaemic heart disease: the Kitava study.<br /><br />Lindeberg S, Nilsson-Ehle P, Terént A, Vessby B, Scherstén B.<br /><br /><b>4 citations</b><br /><br /><br />Am J Clin Nutr. 1997 Oct;66(4):845-52.<br />Age relations of cardiovascular risk factors in a traditional Melanesian society: the Kitava Study.<br /><br />Lindeberg S, Berntorp E, Nilsson-Ehle P, Terént A, Vessby B.<br /><br /><b>2 citations</b><br /><br /><br />Metabolism. 1999 Oct;48(10):1216-9.<br />Low serum insulin in traditional Pacific Islanders--the Kitava Study.<br /><br />Lindeberg S, Eliasson M, Lindahl B, Ahrén B.<br /><br /><b>4 citations</b>blogbloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18029519906193388609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-91137586457316493142010-11-17T19:13:49.342-08:002010-11-17T19:13:49.342-08:00Hellow!
I love your site, It is a pleasure to vis...Hellow!<br /><br />I love your site, It is a pleasure to visit.<br /><br />I have added your site to my site.<br /><br />Please link my site to your site.<br /><br />Thank you!<br /><br />http://yasuka-dietbeauty.blogspot.com/yasukahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12581500498162673254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-77012055141564304342010-11-17T12:20:24.121-08:002010-11-17T12:20:24.121-08:00I saw the article and have traded email with the a...I saw the article and have traded email with the author. I would make the following predictions.<br /><br />His triglycerides are elevated compared to a low-carb diet of equal calories.<br /><br />His oxLDL is elevated ( I'm not convinced that LDL is a useful indicator other than it tends to correlate with oxLDL).<br /><br />I would also predict that he gains back the weight he lost.karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13490274388549702613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-81464483676528721332010-11-17T11:28:53.457-08:002010-11-17T11:28:53.457-08:00Hi blogblog,
Now you're just making things up...Hi blogblog,<br /><br />Now you're just making things up. Lindeberg published most of his Kitava papers in respected peer-reviewed journals such as the Journal of Internal Medicine and the journal Metabolism. You can bet his methods were carefully scrutinized.<br /><br />His first paper has been cited 67 times in the scientific literature.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-24213781861207556602010-11-17T09:30:04.251-08:002010-11-17T09:30:04.251-08:00Blogblog,
I find it interesting (read: dubious) t...Blogblog,<br /><br />I find it interesting (read: dubious) that you are comfortable citing a Gauguin as backing for your arguments, while decrying Lindeberg's observations as untenable. <br /><br />And -- speculations about bodyfat percentage at a glance? --estimations of health based on stature without actual analysis? <br /><br />Rigor and consistency, sir (or ma'am).Medjoubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16687188823132025199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-38744422061191213422010-11-16T18:12:26.493-08:002010-11-16T18:12:26.493-08:00"I think you should look into what they feed ..."I think you should look into what they feed zoo animals.<br />Do they feed organs to lions. Not really. They just feed them muscle meet. Lions and other carnivores don't get that fat easily, as the diet is not that far removed from their wild diet."<br /><br />Most zoos do feed their lions organ meats and bones. Some zoos even feed lions entire freshly killed animals such as chickens or young goats.blogbloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18029519906193388609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-1650942607441576212010-11-16T18:07:09.614-08:002010-11-16T18:07:09.614-08:00"You linked to a photo of people in a culture..."You linked to a photo of people in a culture called the Waura that I'm not familiar with. First of all, they are not obese and I'm not even sure they'd be classified as overweight."<br /><br />I don't know what they eat but the Waura in the photograph obviously have high body fat levels. I'd say an absolute minimum of 20% in the males and 30% in the females.blogbloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18029519906193388609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-16363753112427570322010-11-16T18:01:59.397-08:002010-11-16T18:01:59.397-08:00"Say what?? Muscle would be a very inefficien..."Say what?? Muscle would be a very inefficient way to store energy."<br /><br />When you have an unlimited food supply efficiency of storage is irrelevant. Muscle is far more useful than fat because it also provides a protein store and increases strength and power. A 200kg lion with 1% body fat will be far stronger and faster than a 200kg lion with 20% body fat.<br /><br />I suggest you visit farm where cattle graze on high quality pastures. The cows eat all day and gain a considerable amount of weight. Huge efforts have been made to breed cattle that actually deposit fat ain addition to muscle. The only effective way to increase fat in cattle is to place them in a feedlot where they are fed refined carbohydrates and are unable to exercise.<br /><br />"On the island of Kitava, Dr. Staffan Lindeberg remarked that there was only a single overweight person among thousands."<br /><br />Lindeberg's work on Kitiva seems to have been completely ignored by the medical community - I didn't notice any citations on Medline. You would think that other researchers would be eager to study these miraculous disease free people. Perhaps other researchers simply don't consider Lindeberg's Kitiva studies to be of high quality.<br /><br />A study where you have no birth or death records, no post mortems, no death certificates and no comprehensive clinical histories of patients is close to anecdotal evidence. The Kitivans have never undergone any detailed medical examinations in a modern clinical setting. A resting ECG is practically worthless.<br /><br />Uffe Ravnskov has stated that the only way of determining the cause of death death is a proper post mortem by a trained pathologist accompanied by full clinical notes. Lindeberg is relying on hearsay from relatives. <br /><br />The exceptionally small physiques of the Kitivans tell us that something unusual is going on - a shortage of essential amino acids is very likely.<br /> <br />There is nothing surprising about Kitivans leaving food to rot. The traditional Melanesian/Polynesian sweet potato diet is widely considered to be exceptionally bland and boring. Sweet potatoes are considered a poor quality but reliable survival food in many parts of the Pacific. In the New Guinea highlands villagers prefer to feed their sweet potatoes to pigs.blogbloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18029519906193388609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-81533416298126109752010-11-16T13:38:20.555-08:002010-11-16T13:38:20.555-08:00Hi David,
You linked to a photo of people in a cu...Hi David,<br /><br />You linked to a photo of people in a culture called the Waura that I'm not familiar with. First of all, they are not obese and I'm not even sure they'd be classified as overweight. Second, do you know what those people eat? Are they eating a traditional diet or have industrial foods replaced a part of their diet as in nearly all rural cultures today?<br /><br />I'm not claiming that all traditionally-living humans are super lean and ripped. You can find individuals that are modestly overweight in some traditional cultures, and I think that can be compatible with health. What is rare however is obesity. <br /><br />Hi blogblog:<br /><br />You said "The argument that wild animals don't get fat is technically true. However this is because they tend to store excess calories as muscle rather than fat." <br /><br />Say what?? Muscle would be a very inefficient way to store energy.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-62414692467026082322010-11-16T13:24:39.801-08:002010-11-16T13:24:39.801-08:00Hi SD scientist,
Let me begin by qualifying my pr...Hi SD scientist,<br /><br />Let me begin by qualifying my previous statement about obesity in wild animals. I acknowledge that I came off as a bit categorical. There are probably exceptions out there. However, most animals including humans most certainly do regulate energy balance in the positive (i.e. anti-obesity) direction.<br /><br />You said "there's no matching reflex that would make you averse to food when your body is in the process of building new fat cells." For one thing, in adults fat is generally stored by enlarging existing fat cells. For another, this reflex most certainly does exist because it's what I study in the lab. I will acknowledge that the regulation seems stronger in the negative then the positive direction, however it's present in both directions.<br /><br />I encourage you to look up human overfeeding studies, of which there have been several. I discussed one in my post "the body fat setpoint". Overfeeding beyond caloric need/desire causes fat gain, but it's miserable because the body decreases hunger to the point of nausea. Then as soon as the overfeeding stops, subjects will practically not eat anything for days until fat has decreased. You see the same thing in rodents, unless they are leptin deficient in which case they don't show that anorexic response to overfeeding.<br /><br />Your example of the gorilla is perfectly consistent with my point. When you feed it a low calorie plant food diet such as it eats in nature, it will not become obese. What else should a gorilla eat, hamburgers and fries? <br /><br />You said "If you're going to eat anything more calorie-dense (say, bananas), you can accidentally overeat a couple hundred calories per meal, and your body will store the excess. And even 200 calories per meal can add up to obesity in a very short time." Yes, that's precisely why energy balance is biologically regulated. Being obese is not adaptive, which is why you typically only see it in hibernators.<br /><br />The fact that you can find obese non-Western individuals does not weaken the argument in my opinion. Pacific islanders in general culturally value obesity, and they deliberately overfed their chiefs as representatives of their societies so that other islands would see how well-fed they were. In parts of Africa, cultures deliberately overfeed women to make them fat because that's valued by men. Isolated examples like that are not very convincing, because the fact is traditional cultures were clearly leaner than we are today.<br /><br />On the island of Kitava, Dr. Staffan Lindeberg remarked that there was only a single overweight person among thousands. That was an individual who had left the island to work in a city. Kitava has a perpetual food surplus. Lindeberg noted that a significant portion of cultivated food rotted on the ground because it wasn't eaten. The people there rarely experienced food shortage. This is all published in the scientific literature.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-89269717861734454802010-11-16T11:43:28.242-08:002010-11-16T11:43:28.242-08:00@SD Scientist
I think you should look into what t...@SD Scientist<br /><br />I think you should look into what they feed zoo animals.<br />Do they feed organs to lions. Not really. They just feed them muscle meet. Lions and other carnivores don't get that fat easily, as the diet is not that far removed from their wild diet.<br /><br />But look at the herbivores. Do you think that they feed them grass all the time. Not really they feed them the same kind of junk that we feed them in farms. High grains. In India they even feed them bread!!!Anand Srivastavahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15616369007370348265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-50750869329616177982010-11-16T10:26:55.955-08:002010-11-16T10:26:55.955-08:00I can give you an example of at least one predator...I can give you an example of at least one predator that stays lean in an what appears to be an ad libitum situation. I visited the Everglades last year. Some of the crocs are our size but only need to eat about one fish or bird a week. They nap all day within easy reach of a smorgasbord of birds and fish. They are lean, and would appear to have some sort of feedback mechanism to preserve leanness. Surely there are many other examples of predators who rely on more than Malthusian balance to stay lean.Todd Hargrovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17556388922969976238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-27760992564796874812010-11-16T02:31:11.081-08:002010-11-16T02:31:11.081-08:00I came across your blog and the topics really held...I came across your blog and the topics really held my interest. I always was fascinated by space exploration.. Such a nice post. Keep up the good work guys!<br /><br />Regards,<br /><a href="http://www.canadadrugstop.com/buy-Advair-online.aspx" rel="nofollow"> Buy Advair Online </a>Piyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10770989759109590907noreply@blogger.com