tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post6215992920046989106..comments2024-03-27T23:47:41.656-07:00Comments on Whole Health Source: Hyperinsulinemia: Cause or Effect of Obesity?Stephan Guyenethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comBlogger100125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-90443311085888441992011-09-25T06:49:44.914-07:002011-09-25T06:49:44.914-07:00"However, there is a subgroup of obese people..."However, there is a subgroup of obese people who are considered "metabolically healthy" and have normal fasting insulin and insulin sensitivity. . . This evidence is consistent with the prevailing hypothesis that elevated insulin and insulin resistance are the result of excess fat accumulation, rather than the cause."<br /><br />If you negate cause and effect in one direction, you need to negate it in the other.<br /><br />Also, many "thin type 2s" turn out to be LADA or MODY, which are not type 2.Gretchenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17019921800841883073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-81223753891606544332011-09-22T04:28:28.290-07:002011-09-22T04:28:28.290-07:00I just read this post and got some information rel...I just read this post and got some information related to my concern. Thanks for this post.Martha Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09594440191107333356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-70121148563995421122011-09-17T18:25:43.112-07:002011-09-17T18:25:43.112-07:00@Letters
I've admitted I made the mistake of ...@Letters<br /><br />I've admitted I made the mistake of mixing you up with stargazey. <br /><br />So as far as who I am addressing, if the shoe fits...<br /><br />"The fact is, he was proposing a clinical trial, which as you know is the most tightly regulated type of research study from an IRB perspective and from a federal legal perspective. "<br /><br />You imply there is a federal law requiting IRB approval if there is no involvement by an HHS institution.<br /><br />There is not.<br /><br />"This is not intended to be a "wiki"-whatever. It is meant to express my personal frustrations with the situation as we know it.<br /><br />Reads like more moralistic preaching to me. Who reading this cannot read about IRBs by googling it? <br /><br />Stephan needs you to educate us all about IRBs on his blog?<br /><br />You're wasting space and bandwidth. <br /><br />And why are you personally frustrated? I would submit it is none of your business. Why should you be frustrated by any of this if it has ZERO to do with you?<br /><br />I will repeat my point, inarguable to anyone with a lick of common sense, that acting like a moralistic nanny about a dietary intervention involving seasonings and cooking is at best disingenuous and at worst just plain stupid.<br /><br />There is no IRB on the planet that would find fault with such a study and all of you nannys know it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-74234969033613335972011-09-13T21:51:27.695-07:002011-09-13T21:51:27.695-07:00Hi Rap,
I think it got stuck in comment moderatio...Hi Rap,<br /><br />I think it got stuck in comment moderation for some reason. I published the moderated comments this evening. Sometimes it takes me a while to get to those.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-24744396335727550702011-09-13T19:48:07.632-07:002011-09-13T19:48:07.632-07:00That's strange. I could have sworn it was miss...That's strange. I could have sworn it was missing. In any case, I've now deleted it myself.Raphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08435219032869091692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-20463048152916491052011-09-13T10:34:25.552-07:002011-09-13T10:34:25.552-07:00I have not removed any comments from this thread. ...I have not removed any comments from this thread. In general, I only delete comments when they are extremely disrespectful or threatening to myself or others, or are advertising something.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-48961237914386268102011-09-13T07:09:43.522-07:002011-09-13T07:09:43.522-07:00It appears that my latest post about the IRB issue...It appears that my latest post about the IRB issue has been removed, presumably by Stephan. I'm quite fine with that and I myself have removed my earlier post of September 8. It's quite possible that UW has instructed him not to mention anything further about why his study was withdrawn and to try to dampen down the discussion. This is a rather ugly debate to have gotten involved in and I would rather not risk making life more difficult for him than it might already be.Raphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08435219032869091692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-24774896833147438572011-09-12T23:34:22.337-07:002011-09-12T23:34:22.337-07:00Very interesting and informative post. To avoid ob...Very interesting and informative post. To avoid obesity one should have low fat food and avoid consuming junk food.Thanks for sharing it.<br /><a href="http://www.expresspharmarx.com/purchase/kamagra.aspx" rel="nofollow">Kamagra</a>Kennethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04999401291104146578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-74757871613484879732011-09-11T17:04:00.209-07:002011-09-11T17:04:00.209-07:00@Kurt, I think you are continuing to confuse comme...@Kurt, I think you are continuing to confuse commenters; either that, or you are reading into things too much.<br /><br />- Go back and read my posts. I never claimed that it is unethical or illegal, per se, not to involve UW. I stated that by not involving UW, it appears underhanded. Even if another IRB review was involved, it gives off the impression that Stephan was going behind UW's back for some reason.<br /><br />- I never wrote any "wikilecture" about the function of IRBs. Stargazey did provide some info that might be useful to other readers who aren't as familiar with the process of getting IRB approval. But your comments here are directed toward the wrong person.<br /><br />- Whatever your personal opinion is about Stephan's study is irrelevant from a human subjects protection standpoint. The fact is, he was proposing a clinical trial, which as you know is the most tightly regulated type of research study from an IRB perspective and from a federal legal perspective. Your opinion about whether or not it "clearly requires IRB oversight" is completely meaningless. <br /><br />Running a clinical trial is not the same as recruiting undergrads into your lab and asking them to fill out a questionnaire. IRBs are clearly charged with the task of, rightly or wrongly, being the only arbiters of whether the stated risks and rewards are justifiable. Not the researcher or any independent bloggers. Circumventing your home institution's IRB for a clinical trial may not be unethical or illegal, per se, but it appears very shady. <br /><br />It also could come back to bite Stephan if anything were to go wrong, opening him up to potential litigation if the study were conducted without institutional oversight for human subjects protections. Stephan usually comes across as very bright, conscientious, and responsible, but this situation shows decisions that were potentially the opposite of those positive traits. When subjects enroll in a clinical trial, they are usually some of the most vulnerable people - people who have exhausted every other available option and are now hoping that an experimental intervention can help them. At the very least, they need to trust that the investigators are doing everything by the book, in order to give them the greatest degree of protection.<br /><br />This is not intended to be a "wiki"-whatever. It is meant to express my personal frustrations with the situation as we know it.<br /><br />@allison - UW didn't "shoot down" the study. From what we know, they talked to Stephan about the need for IRB approval, which is meant to ensure protection for the participants (things like confidentiality, risk vs reward, etc.). Rather than accepting oversight from UW's IRB, Stephan chose to cancel the study. What's up with that?2963885c-db49-11e0-be77-000f20980440https://www.blogger.com/profile/11410178493591820346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-39431245079382481732011-09-11T14:54:36.815-07:002011-09-11T14:54:36.815-07:00Stephan,
i hope you can get funding some other ti...Stephan,<br /><br />i hope you can get funding some other time,<br /><br />best,Dr. Curmudgeon Geehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14484363083738134100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-32477117011436320562011-09-11T11:51:16.444-07:002011-09-11T11:51:16.444-07:00I find it both ironic and disturbing that UW would...I find it both ironic and disturbing that UW would shoot down a valuable nutrition study on the basis of ethics, given the deplorable overall state of diet and nutrition research in this country. Food reward/set point theory deserves to be put to the test. While this theory will probably never be studied by the scientific establishment, UW will no doubt continue its contribution to the animal-fat-causes-everything theory propagated by the Pharma Food Government Medical Industrial Complex. After all, there is no obvious profit to be made here.allisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00035675984343369850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-25167845868731275502011-09-10T20:40:48.873-07:002011-09-10T20:40:48.873-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Raphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08435219032869091692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-42874999562201011472011-09-10T19:23:20.519-07:002011-09-10T19:23:20.519-07:00Unfortunately, I've encountered many hedonisti...Unfortunately, I've encountered many hedonistic people in my life who would deem such a low-reward diet to be unethical. But alas, that is neither here nor there.Travis Culphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02611059005476928227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-22475931024306133462011-09-10T11:13:11.126-07:002011-09-10T11:13:11.126-07:00@Kurt, I think you are continuing to confuse comme...@Kurt, I think you are continuing to confuse commenters; either that, or you are reading into things too much.<br /><br />- Go back and read my posts. I never claimed that it is unethical or illegal, per se, not to involve UW. I stated that by not involving UW, it appears underhanded. Even if another IRB review was involved, it gives off the impression that Stephan was going behind UW's back for some reason.<br /><br />- I never wrote any "wikilecture" about the function of IRBs. Stargazey did provide some info that might be useful to other readers who aren't as familiar with the process of getting IRB approval. But your comments here are directed toward the wrong person.<br /><br />- Whatever your personal opinion is about Stephan's study is irrelevant from a human subjects protection standpoint. The fact is, he was proposing a clinical trial, which as you know is the most tightly regulated type of research study from an IRB perspective and from a federal legal perspective. Your opinion about whether or not it "clearly requires IRB oversight" is completely meaningless. <br /><br />Running a clinical trial is not the same as recruiting undergrads into your lab and asking them to fill out a questionnaire. IRBs are clearly charged with the task of, rightly or wrongly, being the only arbiters of whether the stated risks and rewards are justifiable. Not the researcher or any independent bloggers. Circumventing your home institution's IRB for a clinical trial may not be unethical or illegal, per se, but it appears very shady. <br /><br />It also could come back to bite Stephan if anything were to go wrong, opening him up to potential litigation if the study were conducted without institutional oversight for human subjects protections. Stephan usually comes across as very bright, conscientious, and responsible, but this situation shows decisions that were potentially the opposite of those positive traits. When subjects enroll in a clinical trial, they are usually some of the most vulnerable people - people who have exhausted every other available option and are now hoping that an experimental intervention can help them. At the very least, they need to trust that the investigators are doing everything by the book, in order to give them the greatest degree of protection.<br /><br />This is not intended to be a "wiki"-whatever. It is meant to express my personal frustrations with the situation as we know it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-87313938226359056972011-09-10T08:37:17.490-07:002011-09-10T08:37:17.490-07:00@Stargazey
My apologies, the post was directed at...@Stargazey<br /><br />My apologies, the post was directed at the anonymous person with letters, and not you...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-69775800539023028192011-09-10T08:35:16.945-07:002011-09-10T08:35:16.945-07:00@Stargazey
"Therefore, if Stephan were to co...@Stargazey<br /><br />"Therefore, if Stephan were to conduct a study completely separate from UW, he would still be representing UW, and if there were serious adverse events or ethical problems or whatever, it would reflect poorly on UW and Stephan would be highly criticized for not seeking his own institution's IRB approval."<br /><br />That's obviously The UW's concern and Stephan obviously respects that.<br /><br />The point is you do not know all the details and the implication that it is illegal or unethical per se to not involve UW is inappropriate for the reasons I stated.<br /><br />And where did I claim to be the only one with research experience? <br /><br />I got a wikilecture from you about the function of IRBs, as if I might be unaware of their purpose. I simply assured you I was familiar with them, as I am.<br /><br />As I am sure you well know, many times IRB approval is quite cursory in any case, and merely a formality for studies that are not actual medical interventions and involve no drugs or surgery. <br /><br />Are you seriously scolding Stephan because you are concerned about the ethics of recruiting people to study the effects of dietary advice like "gentle cooking methods" and using salt and pepper?<br /><br />You scolds are all acting like Stephan was proposing a dog lab with humans or something. <br /><br />Where is your perspective? <br /><br />Why not be more charitable to someone who had good intentions and was proposing a totally harmless study to be done in his spare time for no pay?<br /><br />Salt and pepper, food mixing, and gentle cooking clearly require IRB oversight. Shame on you Stpehan!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-14758719700765117022011-09-10T07:56:38.869-07:002011-09-10T07:56:38.869-07:00@Kurt,
Regardless of whether someone is conductin...@Kurt,<br /><br />Regardless of whether someone is conducting research at their home institution, that researcher is still publicly known to represent their University. Therefore, if Stephan were to conduct a study completely separate from UW, he would still be representing UW, and if there were serious adverse events or ethical problems or whatever, it would reflect poorly on UW and Stephan would be highly criticized for not seeking his own institution's IRB approval. It looks underhanded. <br /><br />Now, if there was a separate IRB like WIRB involved, then that's another story. But if that were the case, wouldn't Stephan just told UW that he already had IRB approval instead of canceling his study?<br /><br />Congratulations on being the only person here with research experience. Oh wait, you're not? Guess that's why the MD is there after your name, to make sure you get extra special credibility.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-31983421774960954832011-09-10T06:28:13.406-07:002011-09-10T06:28:13.406-07:00Dr. Harris, you may want to read the Declaration o...Dr. Harris, you may want to read the Declaration of Helsinski.Stipetichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17599360018738666001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-63016852326372724542011-09-10T02:35:40.003-07:002011-09-10T02:35:40.003-07:00@john
You can find the NO synthase reference here...@john<br /><br />You can find the NO synthase reference here:<br /><br />http://www.montreal-diabetes-research-center.org/en/marette/Nat_Med.pdf<br /><br />I'm still trying to fathom the import of the other references ...Chris Tunstallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15524207191133093112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-56128360111428592232011-09-10T02:34:30.123-07:002011-09-10T02:34:30.123-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Chris Tunstallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15524207191133093112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-57750158520252420592011-09-10T01:01:48.406-07:002011-09-10T01:01:48.406-07:00Dr. Harris,
In case you in need of some translati...Dr. Harris,<br /><br />In case you in need of some translation from a social retard, Stargazey told you to go F*** yourself.<br /><br />I call "alibi" because I'm drunk - at least that's how we did it as Grunts - which probably led to my social retardation. So either way, I get a free pass.<br /><br />-AlCoachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07108014237791854719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-32476493471753208412011-09-09T23:33:22.711-07:002011-09-09T23:33:22.711-07:00Roberto,
Holy crap, I said that Petro (as far as ...Roberto,<br /><br />Holy crap, I said that Petro (as far as I know) doesn't believe it's impossible to get fat on a low carb, and Stephan doesn't believe it's impossible to get fat on a low reward diet, which it obviously isn't! I'm not using the example to discredit Stephan. You're putting words in my mouth. I said what I said without implying anything further, with the point that someone wouldn't/shouldn't change his mind from Stephan's refs. I also didn't say anything in support for the "carb hypothesis." Your logic about food reward and "low carb" is poor: Some people gain weight on low carb, and shoveling 10000 calories of potatoes doesn't disprove the food reward hypothesis...fascinating!...so nobody's ever gained weight on a low reward diet, right?...oh, and what exactly is the "low reward" diet...and can you also provide me with the definition of the "low carb" diet that everyone follows in apparently the same manner?...and "carbs" are the only thing to cause insulin secretion right?...I should probably save myself the trouble of another comment by saying now that this comment is not some kind of praise for Taubes or the carb hypothesis, which you would probably infer--I'm simply clarifying what I said above because apparently you couldn't dare see anyone speak out againt Stephan's idea (which I didn't even do). This entire exchange has been pointless--why don't you respond to my critique of Stephan's refs instead of argue about the implication of one insignificant sentence.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05161850700121191487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-65239411653419526632011-09-09T21:46:36.310-07:002011-09-09T21:46:36.310-07:00@Kurt, thank you for your thoughts. Best wishes on...@Kurt, thank you for your thoughts. Best wishes on your academic life and your research.Stargazeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09566854038842118222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-2011403440970289432011-09-09T21:32:04.097-07:002011-09-09T21:32:04.097-07:00@Stargazey
Having dealt with IRBs plenty in my ac...@Stargazey<br /><br />Having dealt with IRBs plenty in my academic life as an investigator , I am fully aware of the history and function of IRBs.<br /><br />The points I made are not altered by your recitation of the history. <br /><br />It is very rare for someone to conduct research totally apart from the institution they usually work for, but not at all impossible, and I submit it is not your judgement to make in any case.<br /><br />And you don't really have a clue if there would have been any other entity other than the UW IRB involved here, do you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1629175743855013102.post-28457174695010316832011-09-09T20:44:23.399-07:002011-09-09T20:44:23.399-07:00@ Kurt, the purpose of IRBs is the protection of t...@ Kurt, the purpose of IRBs is the protection of the rights and welfare of humans participants in a research study. Because of abuses that happened in the early 20th century, it became important to be sure that a high ethical standard was maintained when humans were experimental subjects. When an investigator is affiliated with an institution, the IRB of that institution is typically used when deciding to approve a particular protocol. It is also possible to engage a central or independent IRB, but that would be unusual for a person who is affiliated with a university. While some investigations may not be conducted or supported by HHS, it is professionally prudent for investigators to obtain IRB approval when human subjects are involved.Stargazeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09566854038842118222noreply@blogger.com